I’ve seen a number of articles written this week by men – nice, well-intentioned, feminist men, I’m sure – about how they empathize with Elliot Rodgers.
Oh, of course they’re disgusted by his actions and of course they think he was a terrible excuse for a human being, but, well, on some level they get it. Because they know what it’s like to be a lonely dude who feels isolated and unloved. They know what it’s like to want female attention but not know how to get it. They know what it’s like to be embarrassed and ashamed at finding yourself still a virgin at the age of twenty two. So while they condemn his actions, they can’t help but somehow feel a little bit sorry for him.
I can find it in my heart to feel many things, but being sorry for Elliot Rodgers will never be one of them.
I feel sorry for his victims, whose lives ended because of a misogynistic asshole’s wet dream of “retribution.”
I feel sorry for the victims’ friends and families, who have to live with their loss every day.
I feel sorry for Elliot’s family, because of the guilt and shame and sorrow I’m sure they’re experiencing.
I feel sorry for the staff and students at UCSB, who will no doubt struggle to feel safe on their campus after this horrible event.
I feel sorry for all the women everywhere who are reminded on a daily basis how little value their lives have in the eyes of so many men.
I can even manage to feel sorry for the men who empathize with Elliot, because I’m sure that recognizing that part of yourself is difficult and frightening.
I cannot, however, feel sorry for Elliot himself. I don’t especially care how sad and lonely he was. I can’t find it in me to feel badly that women rejected him over and over. I definitely don’t have time for people who seem to think that all of this could have been prevented if only Elliot had gotten laid.
I was a virgin when I was twenty two, by which I mean I’d never had penetrative sex with a man (or any kind of sex with anyone, to be honest). And yes, I believe that virginity is a social construct and not an actual thing, but at the time it was very real to me. I was embarrassed and ashamed of my virginity, and I definitely felt unwanted, undesirable and unattractive. To make things even worse, there was (and continues to be) this persisten myth that any woman can have sex whenever she wants, because all men are animals and will fuck anything they can. But they didn’t want to fuck me.
And you know what? Literally at no time ever did I think, gee, I should go on a killing spree.
I never felt entitled to men’s bodies just because I wanted them.
I never blamed all men everywhere for my inability to get it on.
Never. Not once.
And while I understand that there is more social pressure for boys to be sexually active than there is for girls, that doesn’t mean that girls experience any kind of expectations surrounding their sexual initiation. To be honest, being a twenty two year old virgin made me feel like a freak – no one else I knew was as inexperienced as I was, and the older I got, the harder it became to admit to my peers that I’d never even seen a guy’s junk, much less done anything with it. By the time I got to university, whenever I told people that I’d never had sex, they gave me the once-over, like, what is wrong with you. I worried that I had some kind of sell-by date, like there was an age that I would hit when no one would want to touch my virginal self with a ten foot pole. I just wanted to get the damn thing over with already so that I could get on with the rest of my life.
But I never considered blaming all men everywhere for my problems.
See, the difference is that I didn’t feel like sex was something that men owed me. I didn’t believe that other women, the women who dated the people with whom I was madly, hopelessly in love, were unfairly co-opting something that was rightfully mine. I didn’t think that being nice to men meant that I was entitled to date them. I was miserable and lonely, but I didn’t try to pin the blame for that loneliness on anyone else, let alone an entire gender.
The problem with all of the talk surrounding how nerdy and awkward Elliot was as a teenager and how he just didn’t have anyone to tell him that sex isn’t all that important or that things would get better is that these discussions minimize the role misogyny and male entitlement played in this tragedy. Elliot didn’t murder six people because he was too shy to strike up a conversation with a woman; he murdered them because he felt that he deserved unlimited access to women’s bodies and if he couldn’t have that then by god he was going to kill those women and the men who dated them. This is a man who had fantasies about putting all women in concentration camps and slowly starving them to death. This wasn’t about his virginity – although I’m sure that played a part in what happened – it was about his belief that women owed him sex just because he was a man.
Yes, the idea that being sexually active is directly tied to a man’s masculinity is toxic. Yes, this is a hard thing for men to live with. Yes, being a twenty two year old virgin (unless you’re doing so by choice) will impact your self-esteem. But Elliot Rodger didn’t go on a killing spree because he couldn’t get laid – he did so because he was infuriated that he wasn’t being given the attention and respect that he felt he deserved.
I know that we need to talk about toxic masculinity and the ways that it hurts men. That is something that I feel incredibly passionate about. But right now I’m not ready to have that discussion, or at least not framed around some kind of empathy with how desperate and lonely and confused Elliot Rodger was. Right now my priority is talking about all of the ways that women are dehumanized in our culture, and the ways that dehumanization affects us every day. I want to talk about how our culture teaches men to dominate women, and tells them that violence is the way to do this. I want to talk about the dangerous consequences that women are painfully aware of every time they tell a man no. And maybe this is all part of the same discussion, but right now I just don’t have room to consider how Elliot Rodger might have felt. Because, as weird as this might sound, this isn’t really about him or his story. This isn’t about rationalizing or empathizing or sympathizing with a man who believed that he needed to punish women for not wanting to sleep with him.
This is about how society views women, and how unbelievably frightening it is to live under that lens.
My virginal self at age 20, not thinking even a little about murdering all men
The Belle Jar 
Exactly right Belle! And well put!
Ya’ll are women you don’t understand the stigma against males in this society. Men treat virgins like dog shit, Women treat Male Virgins like dong shit! Women will blatently lie in his face and say how cool they find it and then show disrespect for him in Hidden ways. It’s not fair women and men say we are not entitled to a womans body but every body seems to want to punish a male virgin emotionally for not showing that sense of entitlement. You feminist always about Me me me. look around you!! Elliot was looking for his mother who kept punishing him. He was using blond hair females to replace his mother who abandoned him as a child. That doesn’t ,ale his actions right just a thought.
“You feminist always about Me me me.” “Then show disrespect for him in Hidden ways.”
I don’t care how shit someone treats you, you don’t kill people or feel you have a right to them/their body. Crappiest excuse ever, the problem lies with men and toxic masculinity for telling men they should/need to have sex etc to be proper men. The punishing of the male virgin is completely skewed between other men, there are millions of women who don’t give a shit, i’m sure most don’t know or really care, it’s irrelevant.
The issue is men who genuinely believe in crappy terms like the friendzone, i.e. women owe them sex for simply being nice. I can’t believe we have to have this conversation in 2014, yes there are horrible people everywhere, men and women but this idea he had that he should have had women or that they owed him something is unforgivable and anyone defending him or this point of view is equally vile,
Yes. This. The idea that someone might feel sorry for him is appalling.
Thank you!!! THIS is what needed to be said!
Ironically, he was also only able to see the world from his perspective…
I “pressed this,” in a category called sharing-world citizenship. I commented that I would like to classify these murders as “honor killings,” he was “insulted” so he killed people (specifically women).
Well said! Thank you for this post.
Oh how I envy you! I never had a choice. My innocence was stolen from me as a child but I have never gone on a murderous rampage either. I have not sexually abused anyone else. In fact, I have chosen not to bring dates to my home as long as my daughter is still living at home. She is 14 and I have been widowed since 2010. I’ve never had a say about being objectified, harassed, or demeaned simply because I’m an attractive female with curves. It’s bad enough that I stopped wearing makeup to work so I would be as unattractive as possible. It’s probably why subconsciously, I can’t keep my weight off because if I stay over weight and unattractive, I will be invisible and remain unmolested. Thank you for sharing!
Well said and well written.
Excellent post! I read most of his diatribe and it was just so bizarre and infuriating and incomprehensible, the way that he felt entitled to have some to-him-beautiful woman’s vagina available for him to put his dick in. Just…outlandish and bizarre. The degree to which we were all just, literally, holes, to him.
And yes it has been almost as terrifying, that even the most well meaning of the male blogger responses, most of them are able to relate to aspects of what he said and felt. It is just depressing and so…depraved, unhuman. Resenting a whole gender.
Sigh. Anyway. Nice post. And how adorable is that picture! 🙂
Reblogged this on Attorney at Law Jan Vajda Namestovo, Slovakia.
I haven’t followed this story very much but devil’s advocate has no place here. This kid is dead and irrelevant. There are too many men still alive with an unhealthy perception of the female gender. There is the boyfriend who walks by his girlfriend with his hand at the back of her neck. There is the husband that calls his wife bitch. There are the laws and practices of the godlike machismos. The killers are too fucked up to sway but a few of these guys may find peace if we get through to them. They are everywhere.
Like a lot of men I was immediately irritated by the stream of negative postings about men on social media and while I’ll never endorse anyone being bigoted against an entire group based on gender/race/etc. However, in regard to the violence and murders, there really isn’t anything to say but we need to live in a place where mentally ill people can get help before it’s too late. Men should be able to receive the sort of nurturing that would prevent this sort of insane happening while the masculine status quo of what is expected should change. We need to change the way both genders are treated and viewed. We are a sex obsessed culture that has a perpetual double standard for each gender. It’s egregious and causes plenty of little and big problems for people– especially those less mentally sound than others.
Stop demonizing mentally ill people. I have three mental illnesses. This kid not kill all these people because he was mentally ill, he killed them because he was a misogynist. I am really offended by your ignorant comment both as a sufferer of mental illness and as a woman.
I would bet he would have found another reason to be unhappy and potentially violent had this not panned out for him.
Also you didn’t need to specify that you had mental illnesses. I probably could have guessed.
He even openly tells us himself in his own words exactly why he killed them, because he hates women due to his false belief in entitlement to access their bodies sexually. That is why, hello.. anyone..? It’s not because of mental health services failings, and psychopathy isn’t a mental illness.
I was a virgin until I was 21. Just like you, I felt ashamed, pathetic, unwanted. I felt like I had a “sell-by” date stamped on my forehead, that everyone could take one look at me and just somehow KNOW. I wanted so desperately to get rid of “it”, but at the same time I knew I couldn’t just sleep with anybody, because then it wouldn’t be SPECIAL and I’d be in a whole new world of trouble. I’d be one of “those” girls, and that was worse.
Much like you, at no time did I think about killing anybody, hurting anybody, or in fact even blaming anybody but myself. Which is why terms like “friendzone” bother me so much–how is it that I, a perfectly decent human being, can be rejected by men I desire over and over again but not come up with hateful rhetoric and psycho-babble driven “theories”, whereas if a man gets rejected, it’s tantamount to world hunger? It just doesn’t wash.
Plus all that nonsense about women getting laid whenever they want. Gosh! Me and my haven’t-been-laid-in-nearly-two-and-a-half-years self would just love it if that were true. 😛
Western Society with its films and music seems to promote the idea that having sexual relations in your late teens is normal. If you are a virgin at 20 then somehow that is strange. If you are still a virgin at 40 you are a freak. I was a virgin at 40, but I didn’t blame women for this. The fault if anything was my own shyness. I am now approaching 50 and happily married and no longer a virgin. I am actually happier that I came to be married without having a “wealth” of previous sexual experience. No-one is entitled to anyone else’s body. If a woman says no it means no, don’t get hung up and murderous about it accept it and move on. Maybe the backlash against “Men’s Rights” organisations will be comparable with the backlash against the Muslim community after 9/11.
You captured most of my feelings/thoughts on the subject in a beautifully eloquent and coherent manner. (Mostly I just grumble and swear a lot when talking about this.) I was a virgin until age 20, and despite wanting sex earlier, I never once thought I deserved it/was entitled to it either. Being a virgin not by choice is never an excuse. (Honestly, there is no excuse to rape, attack, or kill people at all.)
you are very good with words, such understanding for such a complex subject, you are right and you found a unique way to look at this issue. Yes i too think men have to start their own awareness movement, and other men, more evolved men should be teaching their less aware brothers how to treat women and how to adapt. There is so much anger toward women who are really coming of age, having their own path, ability to make their own money. Traditional roles are changing and men better change as the days of the macho man is over. Men have to learn how to have comversations with women, and start sensitizing themselves. Or go out into the world and do random acts of kindness, and stop being so self absorbed. Everyone feels alone, everyone feels pain ,feels left out. But you have to reach out to other people and stop blaming others and take responsibility for what you create for yourself. The problem was with himself, and he got everything so easy most of his life. that he just didn’t know how to begin, to do the hard work that it takes to find and maintain a relationship.
I am a virgin at twenty six, why? Because I have spent most of my time getting over my social problems. I saw Elliot Rodgers video, read his manifesto. Our similarity end at virginity. He lacked any amount of understanding, or empathy for woman or anyone around him. While I can understand a frustration for life, and empathize with thoughts of suicide His were grounded in a misogynist reality that does not exist.
The misogyny you refer to is something women have to swim through every day, it is a *real thing and it kills women.
I completed your sentence, perhaps in error?
*Denial of women’s experience is a key feature of patriarchy – part of the reason why sites like Project Unbreakable exist.
Sorry I could have worded that better. What I mean to say is that is thoughts on woman were so incorrect and wrong that they are detached from reality.
Thank you so much for sharing this, it’s something that really needed to be said. The problem is the entitlement men and society generally feels it has entitlement over women’s bodies; talking about them, judging them, possessing them.
Reblogged this on R V Raiment and commented:
Re-blogging with respect.
This is exactly it. Not only do women rarely go on murderous rampages when feeling rejected and lonely, but they often direct their emotions at themselves, hurting THEMSELVES emotionally or physically.
When I was watching this story with my mother we thought the same things; this guy felt he was entitled. He won’t be the first and sadly won’t be the last. This dialogue and the contents of your blog are important subject matter. This whole incident shines a light on the dark corners of misogynistic mindsets. Although not all misogynists are violent… this kid was unhinged and women who were around him no doubt picked up on it which naturally isolated him more.
I would be leery of any man who empathized with this murderer on any level.
And there are no women out there with a sense of entitlement to things they do not deserve?
“I would be leery of any man who empathized with this murderer on any level.”
empathy creates understanding.Understanding is knowlege. Knowlege crates ability to change things for the better.
If you dont understand what someone is feeling you cant understand their actions
Reblogged this on theladyofabundance and commented:
Destructive Misogyny and Entitlement
Well said! And this guy isn’t the only male that uses ‘rejection’ as a carteblanc . men use and leverage resentment at women all the time. Elliott is just the most recent example. Think India.
Eliot Rodger had far far more issues than being rejected, he hated men and women.
Thanks for using this lunatic as some sort of representation of men, just more extreme. Enjoy your misandric life.
Reblogged this on Daisy-Belle Blogs….
Reblogged this on What are you doing in Japan?.
My only problem with some women’s reactions to this is that they are in fact saying that #YESALLMEN are basically Elliot Rogers, which completely negates the fact that the man was severely disturbed, and that not all men are rapists, murderers, or think they are entitled to sex.
I also think that grown women should stop for a second and remember that girls from about the age of 14 to 20 (and some of us even longer than that) are the meanest, cruellest, most vicious creatures to ever walk the face of the earth. I can remember making many boys cry, not that I’m proud of it. Girls not only bully each other, but also boys their own age, who do not mature sexually at the same rate as girls. I have a point here, and I’m coming to it, I just sometimes get sidetracked.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that I bet there are a lot of men out there who were terribly frustrated as boys and teenagers, because they were going through their own changes, having to deal with all kinds of new feelings and terribly strong desires, all the while being tormented by us girls, who, as I mentioned before, were simply terrible, at least at my school — and not all of them — I dare say MOST OF THEM — didn’t become rapists or murderers. So to paint all men with the same brush as Elliot Rogers is, I think, a huge injustice.
This is a very strange misreading of what people are saying. I’ve read a lot of these articles, and I have yet to hear anyone saying that all men are running around hating women and wanting to kill them (except people like you presenting that idea as a straw-feminist.) What I do hear is:
* There are an awful lot of men out there with attitudes like Mr. Rodger, and virtually all women (hence the hashtag #YesAllWomen) have had the misfortune of having encountered and been threatened by them, and never knowing for sure whether any particular man they meet might be like Elliot Rodger — that is, might be inclined to assault or kill them.
* Mr. Rodger’s attitudes (as well as PUAs’ and MRAs’) are merely more extreme versions of attitudes/beliefs that are very, very widespread in our culture: that women exist to satisfy men’s needs, that women are obligated to give a man sex if the man does a few right things (be rich, buy her lunch, give her a compliment; sometimes just being horny is enough.) I would say that something like half of men in our society buy into that (maybe more, I seem to live a sheltered life.)
* Society, especially men, put a lot of energy in to denying that there is any connection between Mr. Rodger’s motivations and either the PUA and MRA culture, or anything in the culture at large.
As I understand it, the whole point of #YesAllWomen is to push back against the idea that Mr. Rodger is a freak outlier and that his behavior has nothing in common with the behavior of so-called “normal” people.
I’ll also throw in that, from what I see, it’s pretty common for men to feel that terrorizing, beating, raping, or killing women for failing to give them what they feel the woman owes them. They don’t generally post hate-filled videos about it, but the women are just as dead.
I can’t speak to teen-age girls intentionally making boys cry — it’s not something that either I or my sons ever encountered, and we all got picked on pretty regularly (and got no sympathy from any adults.) It was always the other boys who picked on us. But I doubt you or any of the girls you knew raped anyone, or physically abused any boys. I doubt you all made any boys fear for their lives.
You might be surprised to know that I am actually a survivor of abuse both at the hands of family and in relationships — but I have never feared all men. I don’t hold an entire gender responsible for the actions of a few.
It is unfortunate (complete understatement, but…) that women live in fear because of the misogynistic attitudes that they’ve encountered.
I understand the point of the #YesAllWomen “movement” — to bring to the light that these attitudes exist, and not just among the extreme.
I just don’t agree with painting every man with the same brush — Rapist until proven innocent.
I guess what I’m saying is that this is horrible for everyone — men and women. Women can’t trust men, and decent men cannot be trusted.
It is a societal ill that affects everyone, not just women.
” I definitely don’t have time for people who seem to think that all of this could have been prevented if only Elliot had gotten laid.”
You nailed it with this. Men like that have bad habits of thinking that don’t go away because they ‘get laid’. If they fall in love and actually learn to ‘make love’, they may get over those bad habits. But, just having sex won’t do it. He could pay someone for that, and he would still feel entitled, maybe even more so.
this man had no regard for anyones rights or anyones rights, he categorically was not an MRA or in any way interested in men’s rights. So, the fact that this was never true, it says so much about the people who say it was.
when someone lies, doubt their honesty, when someone or a groups lies in the extreme about what the must know is untrue to support their agenda, you must completely dismiss them as a valid voice and see them as a destructive voice. This is my view and it has nothing to do with gender…. if I found out the feminist terrorist threat against the AVFM were made up by them, I would never trust them again. But feminists never change, they never critisize feminist outrages and lies, the stay true just like people who believe the catholic church is a good organisation, and every evil is an exception… even though, no contrition, no apology no acceptance, just like feminism.
From second wave, when feminism actually became a thing, it was always hostile and destructive…. it still is, there is nothing good in feminism.
As a college-aged male who happens to be a virgin, I in no way feel any empathy for Elliot Rodger. I don’t feel lonely, unloved, or emasculated. My life experiences have taught me that there is a world outside of the bedroom, and my ability to embrace and interact with that world has made me secure in my masculinity and self-worth. I feel as though we need to teach all of our young men (and women) about the fact that there is a world beyond sex, and that engaging with that world is fulfilling in its own right. In doing so, we would probably solve a lot of society’s ills, including violence toward and dehumanization of women.
what do you think of the lies that he was an MRA? made by people who knew they were lying? and are still lying now?…. what sort of person believes obvious lies?
Feminism is a mental disorder… look at the feminists who have turned on feminism…. they have to have been directly attacked by it. Does that not tell you anything?
Good piece Belle. I can’t help but wonder if this kid had sex ed in his school system. I’ve often wondered why relationship management isn’t taught in school. Past that I don’t feel this is a male/female issue anymore than I believe rape is sex. Rape is violence. So I could say, “Poor kid.” or I could say, ” sick twisted fuck”. This is a mental health issue. I will NOT to read his manifesto or watch any video. It’s just click bait now and should be given no personal attention … whereas solving the problem people have in accepting life and being able to ask for help when their issues have them obsessing is an avenue to pursue. As far as men mentoring boys I hope it happens because it becomes stylish or vogue to understand that relationship and friendship build up to possible sexual experience not the other way around. I just thought of this , what if our societal homophobia kept him from admitting something forbidden about himself ? , leading to this level of frustration.
Thank you for writing this! You share an important message and manage to articulate the divide between accepting virginity is a social construct and still feeling self conscious about it in reality. I know it wasn’t your main point but it made me think how much easier it is to fight misogyny in society than to fight how misogyny has affected your own personality. Whilst this is the case, I support you in not carrying the point so far as to empathize with Elliot Rodgers.
nice
Thank you for saying this. 🙂
Excellent piece of writing.
You wrote “But I never considered blaming all men everywhere for my problems.”
But feminists are using this to hate ALL men , that is what is showing their bigotry.
Same as they use incidents in faroff countries to portray all men are bast@@@@.
This is hate and bigotry and illegal btw
Women feel entitled to a mans money in exactly the same way and objectify us as success objects .
Women themselves choose easy studies and cushy office jobs that are low paid because they expect to find a stupid man who will sacrifice himself for her.
It is strange where all the strong young fit feminists go when there is a disaster , being a saver or a victim seems largely determined by genital type then.
Elliot Roger seemed effeminate boy , typical of a boy brought up by single mother. That is what feminism wanted. Expect many many more Eliot Rogers in the future due to the deliberate policy of defathering children
Hi Ian. Your reactions demonstrate what it is that so many Feminists are alarmed by. Society has evolved in ways that have done great disservice to men – that’s perfectly true – and all the genders have suffered as a result. The danger to women, however, and to those men identify as ‘not men’ or ‘not natural’, is far, far greater. Yes, there are some man-haters out there, but they do not define feminism any more than woman-haters necessarily define you.
Two teenage girls gang-raped and hanged in India – one of a stream of similar incidents – a pregnant woman sentenced by male judges to be flogged and executed in the Sudan for marrying the wrong man, another stoned to death in Pakistan to satisfy male ‘honor’ and Elliot Rodgers’ (?) murders are all related.
We are all losing out here. Don’t let defensiveness get in the way of learning about what is wrong.
Best to you.
Cushy and low paid? That’s an oxymoron. I am only responding to this to point out that you do not make any sense and you will say ANYTHING and will spew all sorts of lies and distortions so you can try to detract from the issue at hand. Nice try though.
@ izzy82
Standard MRA practice, really.
True that!
I don’t particularly feel sorry for Elliot Rodgers either. I definitely felt isolated and unloved during much of my teen years, but I wasn’t making and executing plans to kill people because of it. I grew up, learned how to cultivate healthy relationships with women, and now life is good. I suppose the advantage I had was that my parents and martial arts instructors did a great job of teaching me that I was responsible for myself and that other people don’t owe me anything, especially their bodies. I could have rejected that lesson, wallowed in self-pity, and taken vengeance on those who didn’t cater to my every whim as Elliot Rodgers did. But I chose not to do that. He had a choice just as I did, and from what I’ve read he had rebuffed plenty of attempts to help him. He chose evil even when the alternative was readily available, and that’s why I don’t feel sorry for him.
Are you arguing that being a feminist requires selective empathy?
Thank you Belle Jar for reading and liking my post. I love your blog and I really appreciate your support 🙂
Great post Belle. 🙂 keep writing the truth – the world needs it. Meanwhile I’ll get back to my low paying office job – oh my GOD its a miracle I have a vagina and a great paying office job and I don’t hate men – someone call the police – make that a police woman. Ian you are a moron seriously.
Preach!
Beautifully written and very relateable. I was a virgin until age 24, and while that was mostly by choice (despite dealing with societal pressures from both ends of the spectrum), I still felt like a freak and wanted to get past it as soon as possible.
I agree this man didn’t kill because he was a “lonely virgin.” However, I have a hard time accepting that his actions are indicative of a societal or gender problem to the extent many believe. Yes, men feel entitled, but VERY few would ever kill women because of their “loneliness.” Sometimes, the blame-men approach feels a little overboard for me – and I say that as a woman who has dealt with harassment and even assault many times in my life. Most men are not Elliott Rodgers. He is truly an evil (or at least very unhealthy) man.
Reblogged this on Speaker's Corner.
“”. To make things even worse, there was (and continues to be) this persisten myth that any woman can have sex whenever she wants, because all men are animals and will fuck anything they can. But they didn’t want to fuck me.””
I find that hard to believe, that no one wanted to “fuck you”, I am sure there was some bashful guy that you never noticed because he wasnt all the things that you rage against l)ike the alpha male), he wasnt the bad boy or the football star(american football or whatever the big sport in Canada is) he wasnt the most popular boy in class ,more than likely you considered him a freind.In all reality I am sure if you really wanted to you could have gotten laid but chose to set your standards what you considered higher than those boys who would have “fucked you”. More than likely it was a two way street and there were many guys you never noticed while pining after the unobtainable , while the boys did the same.
The girl I see in the picture is certainly not unatrractive, Though the hair looks much better nowadays.
sammykur, your line of argument can be used against men as well. Men especially (like Elliot) have a sense of entitlement – they deserve pretty girls. If men looked around I’m sure they would find a shy girl far off who’s not tall, thin, stereotypically beautiful, and blonde that might have enjoyed having a sexual relationship with these men. Obviously women everywhere still would have to choose whether or not to engage in the sexual relationship with that man (it’s certainly NOT the case that just because someone is shy or not conventionally beautiful that they should be expected to “put out”!) Elliot found so much misery because he lusted after only the epitome of white beauty (thin, stereotypically pretty, blonde) and never so much as looked at other women whom he might have had a chance with before he became a misogynistic douche bag. In his manifesto he even explained a scenario where his “chubby” male roommate invited a girl over and Elliot wasn’t really bothered by it because the girl wasn’t blonde and beautiful and so “not worthy getting jealous over.”
1. not an argument as much as an observation
2. the use of the word “entitled” or any derivative of is nothing more than propaganda. I really would like to see this word dropped from the English language due to its overuse , its non-committal and vague
3. my observation could be and is relevant to both sexes ,however I believe it is more predominate in women and perpetuated more by women as well(will explain this further if you care to) and perpetuated more by them. I do agree with the bulk of what you wrote however.
4. the whole white beauty thing- have to ponder that one a while, never considered this to have a racial overtone(except maybe Asians being the main victims)
5. besides the use of”argument” and “entitled” a quite insightful comment
You have hit on an important point, but misused it. Eliot set himself up to fail, he always went for the 10. His misery existed before his rejection, when he became a sexual being, a late bloomer he already was a very confused young man.
He didn’t just hate women, he hated people, 4 men 2 women killed. He was a misanthrope, but yes, a lot of this revolved around women. He also has autism spectrum disorder, which would have effected how he related to people in general and managed his emotions. His childhood was pretty rough too and his father and mother splitting up seriously effected him.
His father introduced him to his new girlfriend, only months after the split. He went for his access time with his dad and there she was.
He was bullied very badly in school.
It is very easy, and feminists seems to be, very callously, stepping over the dead bodies here, to use this sick individual to forward their agenda. I find that sickening myself.
It is not entitlement to think you should be able to get girlfriends or boyfriends like every one else does. But he did have a serious issue with not being successful in romance with women.
The author says she has seen men feel sorry for him, I haven’t. Maybe she could back that up. What I have seen is feminists saying he was an MRA, which he most certainly was not.
She also seems to think her feeling about being a virgin set the standard. We very often here women and feminists saying it is angering the way a girl who has over a certain amount of sex is seen as a slut but a male a stud. Always, they miss the other side, and here it is down played. A girl who doesn’t have much or any sexual intercourse, is seen as virtuous and empowered, a male is seen as a loser… we see films like “the 40 year old virgin” and both men and women laugh at men who are virgins.
Society defines men in term of how they are in relation to women. Not just in sex. Masculinity is demonized. When we see “man up” or people/usually feminists carrying out “real men” type campaigns, it is always in terms of women. So let’s get the full picture here and remember that a man’s worth in society is dictated by his approval by women and fitting a model decided by women and feminists. No one, man or women, should place their self worth in how the opposite sex rates them as a man or woman. You never see “real women don’t or do” campaigns… anything close to it is always positive and does not relate to how they treat men.
Had Rodger been in contact with an MRA group or MGTOW group, he could have gotten some perspective on himself and not placed all his self worth in how he related to women. Given how disturbed he was a lot more would probably have been required, but if he was exposed to these groups early, this could have been avoided. But feminists don’t want to actually evaluate what the hell went so wrong here.
The author says “I know that we need to talk about toxic masculinity and the ways that it hurts men.” , why do we have to always say masculinity is toxic and why would that help in the slightest? This is typical of feminists who have one answer for every issue and blame for everything is always on men. Feminists start with an answer before the question is even posed, then work back to make it fit.
Maybe we should stop telling men they are toxic by virtue of gender. Maybe we should say all men are real men and all women are real women, regardless of how the opposite sex measures them?
This “he murdered them because he felt that he deserved unlimited access to women’s bodies” is not true and talking about his childhood is not a way to avoid his hate for women. Avoiding talking about other factors in his life is the contrived method here, and it’s purpose is to make out this was solely because he could not get sex or a girlfriend. If that were true, wouldn’t we have a lot more incidents like this. To suggest this is the sole motivation or cause for him killing is moronic.
As is this “And yes, I believe that virginity is a social construct ” … virginity is not a social construct, it in no way is a reflection of how people in society view someone who has not had sex. People have views on virginity, they also do on cars, but they are not social contracts. Being a virgin simply means you have not had sexual intercourse.
“This isn’t about rationalizing or empathizing or sympathizing with a man who believed that he needed to punish women for not wanting to sleep with him.
This is about how society views women, and how unbelievably frightening it is to live under that lens.” Exactly it’s not…. but trying to look at all the factors is not rationalizing, it is properly trying to understand what happened and why. The author seems not to agree with this. Also, to simplify this to the untruth that it is about him wanting to punish women, which he did, and ignore the 4 dead men, shows how blinkered the author is and how she is using this to express her feeling about men and women in society. She treats the men as incidental deaths when she says this.
The world is far more dangerous for men than women and that is just fact, not opinion.
To view this horrific killing spree as a tool for a feminist agenda is bordering on sociopathic.
Sorry for off loading the lot in the response to you, as it goes beyond you comment. I hope you don’t mind. This is a serious issue and we should look at how society effects people and it’s role in things like this. If we over simplify it to suit our own agendas, we will learn nothing and more men and women will die.
Elliot Rodgers murder twice as many men as he did women
I think this really does have to do with race. The media is quick to portray him as a white man but in fact he was biracial – Asian mother and white father. In his manifesto he writes about his struggles of not being quite ‘white enough’ to fit in with the other white cool children who attend the private schools he is enrolled in. He even dies his dark hair blonde in order to fit in with the cool kids but realizes this only gets him some attention because of the novelty not because he has successfully penetrated their group. Certainly he felt disgusted by frat boys – athletic, “obnoxious, uncivilized” alpha males- who had the women he so coveted and felt he deserved (it is about entitlement – he felt entitled to beautiful women’s bodies because he had such an elevated view of himself but if you don’t want to talk about entitlement you could at least acknowledge that he felt these men didn’t deserve to be with such beautiful because they were brutish and uncivilized.) In his manifesto it is apparent he is struggling with race as depicted in his enraged response and bitter tears of “injustice” when he found out his roommate’s black friend lost his virginity at 15 years old with a white blonde woman. I mean he literary says “How could an inferior, ugly black boy be able to get a white girl and not me? I am beautiful, and I am half white myself. I am descended from British aristocracy. He is descended from slaves. I deserve it more.… If this is actually true, if this ugly black filth was able to have sex with a blonde white girl at the age of thirteen while I’ve had to suffer virginity all my life, then this just proves how ridiculous the female gender is. They would give themselves to this filthy scum, but they reject ME? The injustice!” He was also deeply enraged by seeing a white blonde woman with a Mexican man and a white blonde woman with an Asian man (“And white girls are the only girls I’m attracted to, especially the blondes. How could an ugly Asian attract the attention of a white girl, while a beautiful Eurasian like myself never had any attention from them? I thought with rage.”) There is easily a connection between his racism and his sense of deserving particular women who prefer other men over him.
Yes he might have killed more men than women but the men he did kill were not white men – three of the men were his Chinese American roommates, one was a Mexican American man, and the last person was himself, half white and half Asian. You can look at this article for more information (http://qz.com/216325/asias-mobile-market-is-finally-seeing-its-long-promised-explosion/#216325/asias-mobile-market-is-finally-seeing-its-long-promised-explosion/)
I think you posted the wrong article as the closest thing i see is the asian phone market expanding.
One thing come to mind for me Hitlers mother was widwly rumored to be jewish,I personally can see a parrelel in this and wonder if their isnt some connection with a resentment of the mothers and their sons hatred of their mothers race.
I ponder if a resentment of the mother caused the hatred of their race or the other way around.
I also could see why a person would find a member of their own race attrative compared to others
transforming jelously into anger towards a whole race is wrong but usually when anger is involved there isnt a whole lot of “right” taking place.
I believe to fully understand what happened you would have to dig deeper as the whole race hate/jelously thing is a syntom of a lot societal problem that has little to do with either race or gender ,, but more about mental health and todays society.(if I am guessing correctly,but thats all anyone can do at this point)
Reblogged this on Joseph & The Bee and commented:
Wow! What a piece. SO glad someone said it.