TW for violence against women, misogynistic language, violent language, talk of rape
Last night, a 22 year old man named Elliot Rodger killed six people and injured seven more in what most news outlets are describing as a “shooting rampage.” Rodger died later that night from a gunshot wound to his head, though it’s still unclear as to whether or not it was self-inflicted or from responding deputies shooting back after he opened fire on them.
Almost everything I’ve read about him has referred to him as a “madman” or “mentally ill.”
No. We have no evidence yet that he suffered from any kind of mental illness or was seeking any sort of treatment. Immediately claiming that with no proof to back that fact up leads to the further stigmatization of the mentally ill, and contributes to the (incorrect) assumption that mental illness equals violence, and vice versa.
We don’t know whether Elliot Rodger was mentally ill. What we do know is that he was a Men’s Rights Activist, or MRA.
He was an active member of the “PUAhate,” an online forum (which has been down since the shootings) dedicated to “revealing the scams, deception and misleading marketing techniques used by dating gurus and the seduction community to mislead men and profit from them.” And just to clarify, they’re not revealing these scams because of how vile and misogynistic they are, but rather because these men have tried these techniques and still failed to trick women into sleeping with them. These are men who both feel entitled to have sex with women and also blame all women everywhere for not fucking them. See, they want to have sex with a woman because that’s what they deserve just for being dudes, but they also hate women for withholding what they view as rightfully theirs. And I mean, boy do they ever hate women. The PUAhate forum has, according to an article on The Hairpin, threads with titles like “Are ugly women completely useless to society?” and “Have any hot women ever committed suicide?”
Rodger also subscribed to several YouTube channels on how to be a ‘pick up artist,’ including The Player Supreme Show and RSDfreetour as well as multiple MRA channels.
Last night, shortly before going on his killing spree, Rodger posted a video on YouTube to serve as his manifesto. In it, he declares that he’s a 22 year old virgin, and then goes on to say:
‘College is the time when everyone experiences those things such as sex and fun and pleasure. But in those years I’ve had to rot in loneliness. It’s not fair. You girls have never been attracted to me. I don’t know why you girls aren’t attracted to me. But I will punish you all for it,’ he says in the video, which runs to almost seven minutes.
>‘I’m going to enter the hottest sorority house of UCSB and I will slaughter every single spoilt, stuck-up, blonde slut that I see inside there. All those girls that I’ve desired so much, they would’ve all rejected me and looked down on me as an inferior man if I ever made a sexual advance towards them,’
‘I’ll take great pleasure in slaughtering all of you. You will finally see that I am, in truth, the superior one. The true alpha male …’
This is what the Men’s Rights Movement teaches its members. Especially vulnerable, lonely young men who have a hard time relating to women. It teaches them that women, and especially feminist women, are to blame for their unhappiness. It teaches them that women lie, and that women are naturally predisposed to cheat, trick and manipulate. It teaches them that men as a social class are dominant over women and that they are entitled to women’s bodies. It teaches them that women who won’t give them what they want deserve some kind of punishment.
We need to talk about this. The media, especially, needs to address this. We live in a culture that constantly devalues women in a million little different ways, and that culture has evolved to include a vast online community of men who take that devaluation to its natural conclusion: brutal, violent hatred of women. And I don’t mean that all these men have been physically violent towards women, but rather that they use violent, degrading, dehumanizing language when discussing women. Whose bodies, just as a reminder, they feel completely entitled to.
Another reminder: this isn’t an isolated incident. Not by a long shot. No, most men don’t go out in a blaze of glory after shooting up in a sorority house, but there are so many examples of men becoming violent towards women after being rejected. Like the kid last month who stabbed a girl to death because she wouldn’t go to the prom with him. The threat of violence is the main reason why many women feel unable to leave an abusive relationship – because after leaving is when they are at their most vulnerable. When you look the statistics on violence against women, Elliot Rodger’s act doesn’t seem so much like a one-off incident. He was participating, albeit in a grandiose public way, in the time-honoured tradition of controlling women with violence and punishing them when they don’t behave as desired.
We don’t know if Elliot Rodger was mentally ill. We don’t know if he was a “madman.” We do know that he was desperately lonely and unhappy, and that the Men’s Rights Movement convinced him that his loneliness and unhappiness was intentionally caused by women. Because this is what the Men’s Rights Movement does: it spreads misogyny, it spreads violence, and most of all it spreads a sense of entitlement towards women’s bodies. Pretending that this is the a rare act perpetrated by a “crazy” person is disingenuous and also does nothing to address the threat of violence that women face every day. We can’t just write this one off – we need to talk about all of the fucked up parts of our culture, especially the movements that teach men that they have the right to dominate and intimidate and violate women, and we need to change things. Because if we don’t, I guarantee that this will happen again. And again. And again.
‘”Why do men feel threatened by women?” I asked a male friend of mine. So this male friend of mine, who does by the way exist, conveniently entered into the following dialogue. “I mean,” I said, “men are bigger, most of the time, they can run faster, strangle better, and they have on the average a lot more money and power.” “They’re afraid women will laugh at them,” he said. “Undercut their world view.” Then I asked some women students in a quickie poetry seminar I was giving, “Why do women feel threatened by men?” “They’re afraid of being killed,” they said.’
Margaret Atwood, Writing the Male Character (1982)
ETA: A few people have been commenting to tell me that I’m wrong about Elliot not having a mental illness, as his family members have reported to the media that he had Asperger syndrome. Asperger syndrome is not a mental illness – it is a neurological condition, and it does not predispose people to violence. Correlating Asperger’s with violence is wrong and uninformed and you are doing more harm than good by saying that.
The Belle Jar 
What can one say when something like this happens? We have to reach put when we see people in trouble.
Leslie
We can say that men are violent and they will not stop raping and murdering us. Women, stop supporting men, and stop giving birth to more murderers!
It’s funny, I know a lot of men, including my sons, and none of them are murderers.
That is a bit extreme. Not all men are violent. I have two sons and a husband whom I love dearly. They would never cause harm to any woman. We must look further into the assistance given to young mothers so they have help if needed in raising their children.
Leslie
This story is so horrible and sad. What a horrible Shit. You won’t give me your bodies so I’ll smash them all up and kill them. I hope this tragedy shows that the Men’s Rights Movements is rooted in misogyny.
This B.S has nothing to do with Men’s Rights activist. This is about a bitter Pick Up Artist which happens to be a community that HATES MRA’s! MRA’s are not concerned with picking up women. They are worried about our society showing equal compassion for men and boys. Feminists would much prefer our overwhelmingly female focused posturing on gender issues. I think expecting compassion for men should not require people to transverse a gauntlet of angry feminist trying to protect their gender issue fiefdom.
You want to talk about misogyny and MRA’s want to talk about misandry. Presuming any a man who expects equal compassion from the people in the society he lives in must automatically hate women is exactly why MRA’s have turned against feminist.
Well he was a MRA and he just killed 7 women for not having sex with him….sooo….don’t know what to tell you.
Do you not realise that feminism is about equality? And by equality I mean that at my universities feminist society meeting we talk about and address the issues of gender roles effects on men, how men are supposed to bottle their emotions up and act in certain ways, etc. Feminism is about abolishing thethings that cause disparities between the sexes. The root of feminism comes from a long past of injustice predominantly towards women and getting women the vote, getting laws to change so that rape within marriage is punishable, etc.
What modern feminism is now dealing with is the social implications of a culture that has this past and is still unequal. This involves the need to eliminate gender roles for both genders. Feminism wants equality for all.
Maybe MRAs should learn more about feminism and not just what they think feminism is through how it is represented by those who have no idea and are uneducated on the topic?
Go away. A man just killed 7 women in an obvious hate crime. This is not the time for your posturing and pouting.
Thank you so much, and to the girls comment below this which is what I wanted to reply to (but cant for some reason), that’s like saying oh the person who piloted the planes on 9/11 was muslim so therefore all muslims are terrorists. You claim you want equality and fair treatment than you make a wide sweeping generalization like that, with literally no evidence to support it!? Get the fuck outta here.
Obviously what the man did was a horrendous atrocity that is in no way forgiveable. And if you think he wasn’t mentally ill, then maybe you should get yourself checked, because I’ve been on long dry spells and been generally annoyed that I couldn’t get a date (because who wouldn’t get annoyed its not like we’re owed anything but sex is the primary instinct in basically most living things), but if you’re answer to that is to slaughter people, than you are a psychopath. Should all mens rights groups and men be blamed for this? Hell no. MRA’s have sprouted up mainly because there are feminists who relentlessly bash men, and its not fair. Maybe some guys have trouble talking to women, or feel they were treated unfairly simply because they’re dudes, and women as feminists should know how that feels on the opposite end of the spectrum. There are also plenty of men who are misogynistic pigs who treat women like objects, but does that mean that feminists can just declare all men as vile disgusting creatures who only want to get laid or else they go on a murderous fucking rampage? Um when you get the stats on that let me know, I’d love to see the prevalence of that occurrence in modern day society.
I can understand why some women are afraid of men. Some dudes are aggressive pricks, but if I even see a dude hit a woman its literally less than 3 seconds before everyone around me is beating his ass. And guys afraid of girls? It sucks being rejected, probably because sex has been one of the foremost cornerstones of evolution since, i don’t know, the dawn of any life that reproduces sexually? Also no one likes looking like a loser in front of their friends.
To quote a man who said it perfectly, Cant we all just get along? Jesus fucking christ people its not that hard to just treat everyone with respect and dignity no matter whats between there legs.
This entire situation and a lot of the responses to it make me want to fucking puke.
@linddykal and he may have favoured jeans and tennis shoes. Correlation does not imply causation.
Honestly, I always try to argue and shit, but in total honesty, you’re missing the point, and you’re a fucking idiot. A man killed 7 women because he thought he deserved a woman (and his body) just for being “nice”, and basically, living. So yeah, use your head for a moment and think, please.
I don’t see feminists committing mass murder against groups of men, or even assaulting one man over his opinions. The reverse, however, happens so often that unless it’s something extreme like this it doesn’t get reported.
MRA has turned on Feminists because they’re realizing they’re losing their right to make women’s decisions for them. They want the control, they want the power, things they’ve had and taken for granted for generations. Now that feminists are trying to fight for equality among the genders and they can’t handle it. They don’t want to have to compromise, or consider other viewpoints or needs beyond their own. They want what they want, and they feel they should get it. MRA
MRA don’t want “equal compensation”; they want the status quo of inequality to remain. And because they’ve taken that imbalance for granted for so long, they’re blind that it even exists, and refuse to listen to the mountains of proof to the contrary. Society is imbalanced against women; whether or not they – or you, as it seems – agree, it is.
I don’t blame MRA men for feeling this way. I don’t think they’re monsters. But I think they’re misguided and lacking a more rounded world view. They should be listening to the story on BOTH sides – REALLY listening, not just hearing women’s stories and rolling their eyes. Because if that’s all they’re going to do, than they’ve already failed at proving their interested in equality.
Not only is using a national tragedy like a mass shooting to push a feminist agenda disingenuous, its totally disgusting.
I love how the feminists here are just claiming this guy is an MRA as “fact”. Why can’t feminists learn to argue with actual facts instead of “I FEEL THIS IS BAD THEREFORE IT IS BAD”??
To play down Elliot’s mental illness is a really shitty thing to do because it goes against the feminist narrative that all men are bad. Sorry ladies, but not all men hate you even though some of you *points to all the feminists in the comment thread* are really annoying asshats who actually hate men….
Stop with the histrionics because we all know you’re just as mentally ill as this sack of shit who killed these women. Have you seen all the death threats that feminists use against people who disagree with them? Feminists have been known to kill men so maybe we should dump the baby out with the bathwater and just make the claim that feminism is about the hatred of men? No? Oh oh, shut the fuck up then.
Men’s Rights is an important movement to help men get better access to their kids, minimize the debtor’s prison you’ve concocted to through men in jail when they can’t make child support payments in an economy that is being pushed to employ women OVER men.
The truth is if you think this guy was an MRA, you a fucking asshat and you either have zero cognitive capabilities OR you have your own agenda which is to punish all men because you’re bitter because maybe one guy hurt you in your life. Get over yourselves, feminists.
@linddykal/@bellejar: Show me evidence he was associated, in any way whatsoever, with any group that considers itself a part of the MRM.
Here is his YouTube subscription list, for the record.
https://www.youtube.com/user/ElliotRodger/channels?flow=list&view=56
Pickup artists, yes. MRA stuff? No, not a single one. Zero.
It needs to be said: the Pickup Artist community is to the MRA community as Cosmopolitan is to Ms.
They share absolutely nothing in common, in terms of outlook, problems they seek to solve, issues they focus on, strategies they advocate, etc. Nothing whatsoever. The ONLY commonalities between the two is they focus on men. I challenge any reader to put forth even **one** parallel between the mainstream MRA (as represented by, for instance, the hated AVoiceForMen) and Pickup artist culture.
Everyone: HE KILLED 4 MEN AND 2 WOMEN. That can’t be repeated often enough, because I have read countless comments on the web and on this very page describing his as a massacre against women.
I propose an inverse of Lewis’ law. The self-described ‘Feminists’ aversion to facts, evidence and reality; their quickness to downvote comments without replying to them, their refusal to present facts to back up their claims, their counterfactual prejudice..all of these things justify a critical examination of the continued presence of what is known as the ‘Feminist Movement’ in our society.
Apparently his youtube account had subscribed to “multiple Pick Up Artist and MRA channels” on youtube.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/05/24/1301671/-Elliot-Roger-Gunman-in-California-Mass-Shooting-was-influenced-by-the-Men-s-Rights-Movement
And yeah, it’s totally feminists fault that this guy murdered six women (or “sluts” as he regarded them) because he felt entitled to f*ck them. Are you seriously going to blame men’s violence against women and men’s hatred of women on women? MRA much?
@Lis Boriss: “MRA has turned on Feminists because they’re realizing they’re losing their right to make women’s decisions for them. They want the control, they want the power, things they’ve had and taken for granted for generations. Now that feminists are trying to fight for equality among the genders and they can’t handle it”
You couldn’t be more wrong with that statement. MRA’s are the ones seeking true gender equality- we have no desire for control or power, just equality and the end of vilification of anything male by feminists. You claim feminists are trying to fight for equality. So when NOW and other feminist groups oppose equal parenting by stating that fathers are more of a danger to their kids than mothers, they are fighting for equality? MRA’s are the ones fighting to help fathers be more than a visitor to their own children upon divorce, but feminists outwardly oppose this. MRA’s seek equality for all victims of domestic violence. It’s feminist groups like NOW that oppose having any funds used to build men’s abuse shelters, despite hundreds of studies showing male and female victims at equal numbers. It is feminist groups that oppose spending a single penny on programs to reduce violence by women. (By the way, it is lesbians that have the highest percentage of domestic violence). It is MRA’s seeking to have society acknowledge this, but feminist groups that put out false or distorted data to monopolize DV as a female victim only crime. It is MRAs that seek to have a men’s health council in govt. and feminist groups that outwardly oppose this, using the excuse that it will take attention and funds away from the 14 women’s health councils in govt. It is feminists that made sure obamacare pays fully for only tubal ligations but not vasectomies and breast cancer screenings but not prostate cancer ones. Where are the feminists fighting for women signing up for the draft? Where are the feminist groups’ condemnation of the dozens of boy students murdered and burned alive by Boko Haram? It’s only when women were kidnapped that it mattered. MRAs are the ones fighting for recognition of the boys, but all we hear is silence. I could go on and on about how feminists oppose any help for the decline in males in education or for a men and boys council in the whitehouse. Or the feminists boycotting and stopping any men’s centers on campuses or speakers to speak about issues men and boys face. When the bigotry by feminists stop, MRAs won’t be needed.
>> “I think expecting compassion for men should not require people to transverse a gauntlet of angry feminist trying to protect their gender issue fiefdom.”
It doesn’t.
This is the problem with your position: what you characterise as ‘compassion’ is not really compassion – men are afforded genuine compassion for their individual circumstances all the time, and feminism puts up no barrier to that. But what you’re really asking for is for someone to step in and remove all your pain and change everything that causes you fear and hardship in the blink of an eye – or at least some kind of widespread continual obsession with attending to men;s problems and sorting them out.
And the reason your MRA movement is toxic is because you believe you deserve this total delivery from fear and hardship, and that women somehow stand in the way of this. The belief that you’re entitled to a romantic partner to coddle you is just a natural extension of this, so this man’s actions are entirely tied in with the general MRA agenda.
I say all this as a man who well recognises that there are many ways in which society conspires to make men feel shit about themselves. But unlike you, I can see that feminists are our allies against this.
He wasn’t an MRA. Period.
If you think he was an MRA, you are wrong.
He’s just as much an MRA as he was a feminist, a Buddhist, or a pacifist.
He committed a horrible, terrible act and it is a true tragedy. But he wasn’t an MRA. Nothing anywhere suggests he had any interests in men’s rights. He killed about as many men as women. He regularly posted about wanting to slaughter all other men so that he could be the only man left alive and “get all the chicks.”
That’s not the attitude of someone who cares about men’s rights, whatsoever.
As a mother of 2 sons, i kind of get where you’re coming from. Unfortunately some feminists do go to the other extreme, and instead of fighting for equality among genders they spew hatred of men. But that’s not what feminism is all about. However, I don’t think it’s possible to have a serious conversation about gender equality without first recognizing that men, in all cultures, worldwide, are far and away more privileged than women. The fact that a woman president or CEO is something to talk about speaks volumes. Gender equality means that, equal. Both men and women are equally valuable, and have a different spectrum of things to offer one another. Equality does not mean sameness, it means being allowed to be different without suffering discrimination because of it, and being valued for it.
This article was written with no regard to the facts. This young man WAS indeed suffering mental illness. His own parents had reported him to the police when they were worried about some of his YT postings. He suffered from teurets.
One should always do research before trying to make a point about someone else not doing research.
There is no such thing as “teurets”. There is such a thing as “tourettes”, which is NOT a mental illness, but is a neuro disorder that causes tics, like vocal tics, or muscle twitches. Not violence. NOT VIOLENCE. His parents claim that he has Aspergers, which is a high functioning neuro disorder on the autism spectrum. People with Aspergers are statistically more likely to be victims of violence rather than perpetrators.
You may not care about the loss of life, but many of us do.
Feminism can also be seen as a hate group. radical feminist want to keep abortion legal so they can kill male children. The mens rights movement is about men fighting for rights that radical feminist claimed me already have but don’t.
Hippies “can be seen” as a hate group, too. So can Republicans. So can ANY ideology that you may not agree with, for whatever reason. It’s all in how you fog up the lenses, I guess.
Once upon a time, when I first heard the term “Men’s Rights Activists”, I didn’t know what it really meant… so I tried to read about it with a curious enthusiasm. After all, I’m a man, so someone looking out for my rights can’t be a bad thing, right? 5 minutes of reading up on it, I realized, “What the hell is this crap? Holy Jeebus, this makes me ashamed to have a penis!” Hence, an MRA-enemy was born.
MRA philosophy is not about “fighting for rights that radical feminist claimed me (sic) already have but don’t.” (Actually maybe “me” wasn’t a spelling mistake… maybe you’re a Cro-Magnon: “Me like rights to be equal.” “Me like pie!” “Me like boobs!”) MRA is about desperately holding on to outdated definitions of gender roles and masculinity, because it was comfortable being on top. So they refer to the underdogs of history as “the enemy”, and paint themselves as “fighting the good fight”.
Feminists dont want legal abortions to kill male fetuses (which by the way, in alot of Asian areas, female fetuses are aborted for being female; there was a huge powow about outlawing gender specific abortions in California because of this). Feminists want to legalize abortion because it is not anyone’s place to determine what a woman can or can’t do with her body, especially force her to be a mother. She may not be ready, she may have been raped, the birth control may have failed, prprotection may have not been used. Whatever the reason, it is not okay to force a woman to carry a child that she does not want. Its not about attacking men, its about treating women with enough dignity to control their bodies and their lives. Do not be the stereotypical MRA that makes a woman’s issue about him. Females do not have a right to outlaw abortion for other women either because again, that woman’s body and future should not be determined by the preference of a stranger, or parent, or friend. It should be hers. And if the father is around, then he has a say in it too, but ultimately, the last call is with the woman. Abortion is not about men. Sorry to bruise your ego that your junk is not the center of attention.
Aww crap. Looks like us feminists have been busted.
ALSO: No abortion has ever been performed on a child. When you kill a fetus or human in an earlier stage of development it is an abortion. when you kill a child it is not called an abortion because… it’s not abortion. You can only abort something (someone? sometimes the fetus is dead and it’s still called an abortion) when it is inside the woman’s uterus (or maybe fallopian tube if it’s an ectopic pregnancy I don’t know if you can remove that and if it’s called an abortion. Not a DR.)
But you were right about everyone else. Guess I have to let the little shits live now XD
I do so love how the Men’s Rights Activists have shown up here to not only 1) claim that the guy wasn’t one of them (even though he was), but 2) shower us with yet more proof that the Men’s Rights movement IS indeed rooted in misogyny.
I know, right? It’s the gift that keeps on giving.
Especially the guy that wrote this gem: “radical feminist want to keep abortion legal so they can kill male children.”
Fucking morons. Let’s hope nobody reproduces with his DNA.
How was he a MRA? He never claimed to be one. He regularly posted in forums that hate the Men’s Rights Movement. He regularly posted about wanting to kill all other men. He was a severely fucked up, misogynistic individual tied up in the hate filled, misogynistic PUA community. The MRM publicly hates the PUA community and vice versa.
If you think he was an MRA, you simply have your facts wrong.
And while you’ll find some misogynistic MRAs (just like you can find countless examples of misandric feminists), the movement by and large is egalitarian in nature. If the radical notion that men are people too and deserve equal empathy and compassion from society and equal protections under the law is something you find misogynistic in nature then you have some serious biases in yourself you need to examine.
All men should be Men’s Rights Activists,, If “Feminist’s were REALLY about “Equal Right’s” they would be called “Humanists”
Of course the story is horrible, but the MRA has absolutely nothing to do with misogyny. The MRA strives for equality, and any real feminist would accept that as an act of solidarity, not something that acts against it. Sorry linddykal, but you really don’t know what you’re talking about.
Reblogged this on Infinite Multiverses and commented:
‘”Why do men feel threatened by women?” I asked a male friend of mine. So this male friend of mine, who does by the way exist, conveniently entered into the following dialogue. “I mean,” I said, “men are bigger, most of the time, they can run faster, strangle better, and they have on the average a lot more money and power.” “They’re afraid women will laugh at them,” he said. “Undercut their world view.” Then I asked some women students in a quickie poetry seminar I was giving, “Why do women feel threatened by men?” “They’re afraid of being killed,” they said.’
Margaret Atwood, Writing the Male Character (1982)
‘”Why do men feel threatened by women?”
You are making a pretty offensive negative generalization about men. I’ve learned it’s best to take premises such as yours and see if they can apply to both genders. The problem with your start point is you already rationalized women’s anxieties and are blinded by the assumption men must be so better off that any anxiety that remains is due to some deeper underlying character flaw. This is entirely too sexist.
Men and women have some natural forces that work within them that makes appearing good in front of the other seem like a incredibly important thing to do. Let’s not run from our shared humanity so we can find excuses to vilify the other or condemn them for falling short of our expectations. I think we can learn a bit more from intra-sex interaction than we have been. This side tracking with one line of theories on gender revolving around a ‘broken’ set of premises isn’t the way forward in my opinion.
Regardless; I’ve actually gone and asked people this question. The guys always answer with a variation of they fear being laughed at.
The women always either say they’re most afraid of being raped or killed.
These totally different deep-seated anxieties do exist, and they are real. Rationalising it away with logic on how you want the world to work doesn’t make the world operate on that wishful thinking.
“Not all men are violent to women” True, but all women have had a time when they were fearful of violence from a man.
… Are you actually going to try to claim that there are more than a handful of men out there who, on a first date, worry (actively) about whether the woman will rape or kill them? Because I guarantee you a large portion of women have worried about that. In fact, did you know that it is actually a *common* practice for a woman to tell a friend who she’s going out with and where, with the understanding that if she doesn’t check in with said friend by a certain time the friend will call the police? Do you know any men who have ever done that? No, you can’t generalize to everyone, but the numbers are very, very lopsided.
@B: Assuming every man is a potential murderer is a pretty cowardly way to live life. The threat of violence exists fir both genders in any situation.
As for the article, nobody wants to be laughed at and embarassed (women included) but men as a whole don’t “fear” it in the slightest. And it seems somewhat bigoted to assume all proponents of Men’s Rights have a secret mysoginist agenda (obviously some do, but you could find a woman-hater among any group…same goes for man hating women, I don’t lump all feminists into that group because of a few bad apples, so why do you feel justified doing so to MRA’s?)
It’s not cowardly, it’s common sense. Common sense doesn’t have anything to do with bravery.
What’s bravery is seeking out connections with another human being knowing the outlying chance isn’t being rejected but being actually physically in danger.
Why on earth do you think you should engage in a discussion of safety with women who are trying to openly share with you what we do fear by diminishing and denying? If you want reasonable, equitable discussion, when someone talks about genuine fear for their own safety, you don’t call them cowardly. It makes it appear you don’t really WANT to hear what other people know about their own lives.
I certainly don’t fear that every man is a potential murderer; that’s my worst case scenario.
And, I group all MRA’s together because all their stated beliefs are awful. I cannot respect an individual that supports an organisation which is devoted to suppressing half the population just so the MRA’s can feel good about being “alpha males”.
Feminism is about bringing women up to having equality with men. The MRA…not so much.
This was a very enlightening article. I do wish you included cited sources but you did a great job in creating a detailed picture of the issues. You pointed out some great points such as stigmatization of the mentally ill.
This is terrifying and so incredibly sad. That video is bone-chilling.
I did read on multiple news reports that Rodger’s had a very high-functioning form of Asperger’s, and was being seen by school counselors prior to the shootings. It’s by no means an excuse, but it is part of the story.
Oh really? Weird, I haven’t seen anything about that.
I’m not sure that Asperger’s is considered to be a mental illness though? Not from the stuff I’ve read, anyway.
‘Asperger’s NOT a mental illness?’ Please tell me you are joking. For someone who is such an expert on the psychology of misogyny I can’t believe you seem to have neglected to research a condition that effects so many women as well as men. I guess it doesn’t fit into your narrative though? Aspergers has serious consequences for any of it’s sufferers if not given the necessary support – add in the toxicity of the good ole gun-lovin’ USofA weapons worship and you will see incidents like this time and time again.
Oh Jesus Christ. I know what Asperger’s is, and I know how seriously any disorder on the autism spectrum can impact people. I meant that it’s not classified as a “mental illness.” That doesn’t mean I don’t believe it’s real.
Also the vaaaaaast majority of people with Asperger’s are not violent.
No, I don’t personally consider Asperger’s an “illness” either. I do think that it may be part of the reason this young man felt so isolated and alone, because he apparently struggled with social interactions his entire life.
Dear Simon:
I did some research. Guess what five seconds of Google showed me?
“Despite Asperger’s being listed in the APA’s Diagnostic manual it is not a mental illness, it cannot be caused by trauma or neglect and it cannot be cured with therapy or a change in lifestyle or attitude.”
Source: http://www.behavior-consultant.com/aspergers.htm
Aspergers is not a mental illness, and Aspergers did not cause this violence. Aspergers contributed to his sense of isolation – of that I have little doubt, but it didn’t make him violent.
My daughter has Aspergers AND mental illness. The two are not the same, though they can intertwine in complicated ways.
Just because a diagnosis is in the DSM doesn’t mean it’s a mental illness. Aspergers is a neurological difference.
Aspergers would be a Neurological disorder, and not “mental illness”. … Also his rant, previous behavior, as well as this, is certainly not how people with Aspergers generally respond to rejection. (More often than not, they’ve been singled out as weird/creepy/awkward etc since very young, and told so repeatedly… 99.9999% of the time rejection would be blamed on THEMSELVES… )
PLEASE PEOPLE STOP referring to PUA or self centered assholes as “Aspergers” or “High Functioning Aspergers”. Even if undiagnosed, that actual Aspergers person is the shy, awkward person who is trying SO HARD not to mess up a social situation… and while maybe not able to figure out what’s going wrong, are blaming themselves.)
Asperger’s is NOT a mental illness. Please don’t treat it like one.
Sincerely,
A person with Asperger’s.
aspies kids are not violent and all aspies are high functioning
they have social issues
most dont go out of their way to blame others for their social awkwardness…they blame themselves
and the only comments i have seen about him possibly having aspies have been on the boards he hung out on
His family released a statement about his diagnosis.
I re-enrolled in college in early 1990, just weeks after the murderous misogynist attack on 14 female engineering students in Montreal. At the time, the media refused to call it for what it was, despite the gunman’s many threatening letters to leading Montreal feminists, despite the fact that he blamed these students for taking his rightful place as a student of engineering… despite fact that this was misogyny at its most brutal enforcement. I joined rallies, and became an active feminist voice for equality. Many in Canada still refuse to call this massacre for what it is, an act of misogyny. That this hatred has now found a new harbour online, where cowardly men gather to conspire against women, is a sign that nothing has changed but the way the game is played.
Once again you are using a single brutal act by one man as an excuse to promote an ideology that bashes men relentlessly one generation to the next. Even men like yourself are trained to reject equal compassion for men in exchange for greater compassion for women. No one seems to notice the irony of exploiting the working principals from the traditional patriarchal privileging the safety and welfare of women to the point of practically treating them like children.
Playing the role of male protector is something most men were raised to do but it becomes pathological when feminism demands they act as allies who unquestionably echo their sentiments. They dare not care as much for men and boys as much as women and girls. Men have privilege. Men have too much. Men must be brought down to size. How dare they assume equal compassion is a fair standard!
In reality I think you are as bigoted as the women taking up the same approach that you do. You think men are flawed and the cure is solely in focusing on how they can be better for women. I think men being better for themselves and other men is equally important as expecting a equal or even proportional focus on their issues.
Hate begets hate but Men’s Rights isn’t hate. It works very hard not to be that despite the fact they must face down some of the ugliest aspects of human nature on a regular basis. What they are doing shouldn’t be controversial if it weren’t for a established ideology fighting hard to make the unreasonable appear reasonable.
Go away.
If you type MRA three times then turn out the lights and look in a mirror, a dude in a fedora is standing behind you.
Hi Edward: In our culture it is considered appropriate to be protective of individuals weaker than one’s self. That includes children, that includes the physically disabled, that includes the elderly, and that includes women. Why is that ironic? Why is that anything except ethical behavior?
It isn’t a single brutal act that people are focusing on here, but an extreme action that exemplifies a continuum of behavior from a small percentage of men, men who regard women as something less human than they. That continuum is seen everywhere, from the advertisements that depict female torture to the wallowing murk of most pornography to the urging of battery against women by writers like Paul Elam to the widespread incidence of rape of women, even to the overwhelming preference of employers for the “Ethan” version rather than the “Emma” version of two identical resumes.
Some men–probably most men–are able to get that. These men are willing to recognize that still in this century, this decade, women continue to exist day-to-day in a state of fear and disadvantage that males simply don’t experience. Why is that so hard for you to acknowledge?
No.
Perhaps you would benefit from realizing that you began your life as female, as do all humans. Women are the creative source and acknowledging that inner feminine within you would re-connect you to source.
Woman-hating is widespread. I’m a bit unclear as to what rights men feel they do not have? We still haven’t passed the simple Equal Rights Amendment, and a leading cause of death for women is violent men.
there is no such thing as war on women. haha. lets be honest the biggest hate group is Radical feminist. they probably deserved to get shot in montreal. I believe in equal rights for everyone but what is really cowardly is women showing hate for men while hiding behind men that they paid off with sex. also misogyny and misandry go hand in hand.
You say there’s no war on women… yet you claim they deserve to be shot. Seriously? SERIOUSLY???
Did you seriously just say the women deserved to be show? Holy crap you’re a dumby, most feminists are not that radical, I’m a guy and I consider myself a feminist, but I don’t hate on men, men just don’t need special protections because society is already cut out to benefit them, you know aside from minorities (like people of colour or gay, bisexual or trans men).
Who cares whether it is classified as a ‘mental illness’ or not? The causes of this incident are a lack of mental health awareness and support (plus the stigmatisation of the mentally ill) coupled with an embedded infatuation with gun ownership in America. Misogyny is a contributory factor but not the main motivation. Try and see beyond your intended narrative.
Mental illness and its manifestations are not de-coupled from culture. The way mental illness manifests is heavily INFLUENCED by culture.
Some cultural differences are also apparent in the kind of delusions that occur in schizophrenia patients. Often, the delusions tend to reflect the predominant themes and values of a person’s culture. For example, in Ireland, where religious piety is highly valued, patients with schizophrenia often have delusions of sainthood. In industrially advanced countries like America, patients’ delusions tend to focus on sinister uses of technology and surveillance. Patients may report that they are being spied on by their televisions or that they are being X-rayed when they walk down the street. In Japan, a country that prizes honor and social conformity, delusions often revolve around slander or the fear of being humiliated publicly. In Nigeria, where mental illness is believed to be caused by evil spirits, delusions may take the form of witches or ancestral ghosts. (Source: http://www.pbs.org/wnet/brain/episode3/cultures/)
“We know the manifestation of mental illness is affected by cultural factors,” Dr. Swartz said. “One’s cultural context does effect people’s thinking and particularly their delusions. It gives some content and shape to their delusions. While we don know whether there was a specific relationship between the political climate that he was exposed to and his thinking, it’s a reasonable line of inquiry to explore.” (Source: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2011/01/mental_illness_expert_we_shoul.html)
So you’re willing to entirely ignore what the gunman actually said was his motivation in his actual video and assume you know more about his motives than he does? Just because you don’t like being told that misogyny is bad?
And if you watch some of his tragi-comic videos, it seems he has just as much contempt for the males of our species!
If he supposedly had “just as much contempt for males” then why didn’t he specifically target men in his shooting rampage?
4 of the 6 victims he killed were men.
Simon, what you are saying is valid, however, this is a misogynistic killing not because of narrative subjectivity but because Elliot Rodger’s had said so specifically in his YouTube video. And yes I accept when you said he hated males too. But his targets were not the males they were specifically females. Even if he hated males he didn’t go after any males he thought was deprecating him or condescending him, etcetera he went after women saying he is “superior than them” and also “the alpha male” . Misogyny is the main motivation with frustration. The last video itself is both part and parcel of the massacre. There are other factors but misogyny is clearly an overriding one.
Also I have a friend who was said to have a bit of high functioning Asperger’s tendencies and he has yet to do anything severely disrespectful to any living human being, male or female. Everyone is different, true, but should not those activists be held accountable in slight for allowing to propagate such mean ideas about both females and males? Also, we live in a culture, a hegemonized one, where sex itself, both the categorical idea and the act, is fabled, labeled and immersed in both age and personality categorizations that we all in different degrees are hounded and persecuted by it.
Yet, that did not lead us to easily murder. Think how his hatred was left to rot him rather than him not getting any and how he specified sorority members as “blonde sluts”. The culture betrayed him, I accept that. But he also betrayed himself by going off that way.
So, he didn’t go after males? News is that there are three dead male bodies in his apartment. Please can people learn to wait until all the facts are in?
Even if he did that gives the situation extra dimensions that was I not aware of. However, misogynistic motivation is there in his killing of the women and partly also the men. For example, if I consider that someone is my enemy because they are Black but three or four White people because my goal is to destroy Black people or gain them as goods and those White people, being Civil Rights activists, got in the way of that. That wouldn’t make me less of a racist but it does augment my coldness as a murderer. It also show how heartless the killer to just kill those guys who hadn’t done anything. If they bullied him badly it still not justify killing them because at the end of the day his killing is mired in his philosophy that he wants to have fun and get laid. Yes, the facts are still being found and we are open to that because we want to accept them. Could it also be that those guys found out about him and so he killed them so that they couldn’t interfere? If so these people are all dead for a guy who thought that college is only to have fun and get laid. And these people gave him a reality check.
BULL SHIT. This is not what the Men’s Human Rights Movement teaches. This is no more an accurate depiction of Men’s Rights than Solanis’s SCUM Manifesto and her murderous rampage are accurate examples of Feminism.
The Men’s Human Rights Movement is about equality. Not “equality for women” but real equality, equality for all. This includes equality in criminal sentencing, equality parental rights, equality in victim services, equality in educational opportunities and many other aspects of society where men get the shit end of the stick.
The real story here is the lack of mental health services. Particularly mental health services FOR MEN.
Society needs the Men’s Rights Movement just like it needs a White History Month and a Straight Pride parade – IT DOESN’T.
So we shouldn’t have gender equality? We shouldn’t have equality in parental rights or equality in prison sentences or equality education or equality in workplace hazards or equality in victim services or equality in outreach programs or equality in homelessness or equality in access to health care or equality in mental health services or equality in any other way that equality won’t benefit women? Do you really think equality is bad?
Except that Aspergers is not classified as a “mental illness” so it wouldn’t be caught by mental health reform, AND the guy was seeing a counselor for it and was receiving every bit of health his incredibly wealthy parents could give him.
I have never met an MRA who did not descend into death or rape threats after a few paragraphs of exchange. I have, to date, gotten more rape threats from MRAs than any other group of people (unless you want to just count ‘men’ as a group). The movement could really do some good and have great things to say, but that just isn’t what’s being seen or heard. Several MRA organizations have actually been declared hate groups.
For the love of god, he was HIGH FUNCTIONING aspbergers, and aspergers is a HIGH FUNCTION autism, and autistic people are /less/ like to kill someone than the general neurotypical public! This guy was a high functioning version of a high functioning version of a disorder that doesn’t relate in any way to violence, AND he had access to any treatment money could buy. This is not a story about mental illness.
Aspbergers is not the one and only mental illness. It is rather obvious that he was also suffering from depression and social anxiety. Suicide and Murder/Suicide (as with this case) is common in depressed patients.
Also, I think your confusing PUA (Pick Up Artist) with MRA (Men’s Rights Advocate). MRAs are likely to call you a sexist bigot for arguing against gender equality, but won’t do death threats or rape threats.
Asperger’s Syndrome is NOT a mental illness, and the Men’s Rights Movement is NOT about equality.
Asperger’s is on the Autism spectrum. It’s classification as a mental illness or not is simply splitting hairs.
The Men’s Rights Movement is about equality. It is not about benefits for women. I feel really sorry for you if you can’t see the difference between gender equality and benefits for women.
Autism is not a mental illness either, so it’s not splitting hairs. It’s not splitting hairs to expect accuracy; a better option for you, genderneutrallanguage, would be to simply not attempt to explain anything you don’t really know.
Autism is a neurological difference. It’s not a mental illness.
and if you were about equality, you’d be a feminist. You’re about retaining advantages you shouldn’t have based only on gender.
When you have to live in fear of men’s violence simply because you were born a woman, then let’s talk about equality. K?
When you have to live in fear of women’s violence because they won’t be held accountable for it, regardless of how sever direct or damaging then let’s talk about equality . K?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQLlZoyphsc
What boggles my mind is that this young man’s family had CALLED the cops. Seeing a well-to-do young white man with a fancy car, the cops pronounced him just dandy and left him at large.
I grew up with a father whose constant threat was to murder us all whenever he was “ready to go” — I leave my house less and less; as do other members of the family. We don’t shop at malls, we only attend a movie maybe once a year or more rarely. Sad to say that the biggest hope of change is if American businesses start to believe that their bottom line is affected by gun madness.
Mmm?
His thought pattern seems focused on Red Pill (TRP) philosophy and Pick-up Artist’s (PUA) methodologies, rather than Men’s Human Rights Movement’s (MHRM) philosophy.
Believe me, I’ve dabbled with MHRMers and PUAs in the past, and they are as similar as an egg can be to a chestnut.
This is the only place I’ve seen the victims identified as “six women.” Has information about the genders of the victims been released? Everywhere else says “six people.”
You’re right, I’ve changed it. I’d read somewhere that it was six women. I’ve edited my post to reflect that that’s not true.
You might further edit it to clarify it was 4 men, 2 women.
People talking about the “men’s rights movement” like it’s an actual thing to be frightened of seems like the lefty version of the 80s satanic panic.
What also got me is that no one has really criticized this guy or shown a rap-sheet or something like that. If this person was Black or Coloured or of some religious Faith then that would be the first subjects to be easily disclosed and discussed like The Garden Party of some sorts
Obviously he was mentally ill… Just listen to him talk ! A narcissistic psychopath !
While no one’s entitled to anyone else’s body, you have to consider that, in heterosexual relationships, it’s still in the vast majority of cases, the men who have to follow the imposed ‘active’ role of approaching women, being judged and risking rejection, and women the ‘passive’ role of accepting or rejecting from those men, as she chooses to; and almost never the other way around. If the woman is entitled to those men’s bodies or not, it doesn’t even register; and they don’t even have to approach or risk rejection if they don’t want to, they just get offered them.
This puts men in competition with each other (not only in looks, but as a provider, in income, personality, car, whathaveyou), to be chosen. This is what many men resent: The fact that women, just by virtue of being women, just get offered what they always have to struggle for, and never being the other way around; and many times, taking their effort as a given.
It also opens the door to the possibility of a man always being rejected, and since women don’t approach, he’s trapped; expecting this to not have a terrible toll on his mental well-being and self-worth is insane; and given those roles, he’s got no other option to stop being alone than to risk adding to that toll, which might one day get too heavy.
While I’m in no way trying to justify what these men did, I am trying to explain it. This might get progressively better if those roles were trascended, and men and women would be approached the same amount; something that I don’t get how it doesn’t get adressed big time, in a post-feminist world.
Your point would make a lot more sense if you acknowledged that you are not talking about “women,” you are talking about “stereotypically attractive women.” There are tons of fat, frumpy, or even average women who in no way get to “do the choosing” as you put it, who do not get the offers (or at least not many). But they’re not generally considered hot enough for the guys who are whining because the hot girls won’t sleep with them, so they get left out of the rants.
No, I am actually talking of all women. Even if you are talking about unattractive women, they may be rarely approached; but they still expect the men to approach them, rather than she trying to approach them. It’s safer for her ego, no risks on her part.
But let’s take a more extreme example, a woman so exceptionally unattractive; she doesn’t get approached by any man, ever. And since she won’t get approached by any men, if she wants sex/a boyfrend/a one night stand/etc, she has no other choice but to pluck up courage, to approach them, risk rejection, shame and judgement repeteadly, not knowing when and if anyone will say yes, her self-worth on the balance, frustrations growing with each time, trying to distort her personality to what she heard men are supposed to like, every “no” making the whole enterprise seem more pointless, in turn making each next try progressively harder, in turn making her fear drawing near that point where she can’t muster the will to try anymore and the loneliness extending for the rest of her life; while simultaneously having to mask all this to seem more attractive, and, by God, trying not to say or do anything that may scare off the man in question… Then, yes, I’d say she is working on the same level as the vast majority of men. (Yes, you may say I’ve gotten a bit dramatic… But it sort of can be.)
Yes, there are unattractive women; they are the barely approached; yes, there are unattractive men, they are the mostly rejected. Still, only one of those groups is making what we might call an ‘active’ effort, involving a risk. No matter how rarely, there’s no way to lose if you are approached; the same cannot be said of approaching.
Just in case, to clarify, when I say that women “get to choose”, I don’t mean they get to choose from any man, ever; rather, than they get to choose from the men approaching them. And even if it’s just one man, she gets to choose to say yes or no; while the man is subsided to the women’s choice. This is her right, of course, no one is entitled to her body… Then again, no one’s entitled to be approached, yet men are, by default, expected to do it; it is taken it as a given.
There’s one more big advantage to being approached: Let’s say you’ve got 10 men and 10 women. Now, man number 10 averages the best in all concerns (money, looks, personality, etc.). Man number 9 a little less so, number 8 a little less, and so on, ’till number 1, who’s awful in all concerns.
Now, in different ocasions, each one of those ten men, as is their role, approach each of the ten women. Odds are what’ll most likely happen, most or all women will chose one from the small group of ‘top’ men. It’s just logic: Why settle for a ‘lesser’ man, if they can wait their turn and try their luck with a ‘top’ man?
And this is already taking as a given that men always can, will, and should approach. If you’re terminally shy or something like that, you pretty much screwed from the get-go.
You may say, “attractiveness is subjective; what I consider a 10, a 6 or a 2 doesn’t coincide with what other person may consider a 10, a 6, or a 2”. Yes, but subjectivity doesn’t mean equal chances; if it were so, then Hugh Jackman and Joseph Merrick (to throw some names) would have the same amount of women considering them attractive. Women may, each one subjectively, consider the first one attractive, and, again, each one subjectively, consider the second not attractive. Subjectivity may give some differences but that doesn’t guarantee great variation woman-to-woman.
Seriously. Men always approaching women. In a post-feminist world. How this remains unchallenged? I don’t see how any result from challenging that wouldn’t better gender relations and just society in general.
Men are attracted to women’s looks and women have to compete with each other. Women are attracted to money/status and men have to compete with each other. Its not “fair” to both sides and neither gender gets a pass.
I agree that things are still mostly like that; but the fact we realize that things currently work that way should be used as a reason to change them, rather than an excuse to keep them as they are.
Yes, members of both genders compete between themselves, but I’m not really talking about what happens within each gender, but the interaction between them. Women may be competing with each other in ‘looks’, men may be competing with each other in income, but it’s still almost always one gender aproaching the other. As I said to ‘B’ above, you can’t lose just waiting to be approached, you don’t risk anything; you just wait and choose; the risk is being doubly run by the other gender.
Also, you have to consider how feminism has dealt with the idea that women deserve that money/status power just as much as the men, who are the ones who have traditionally had it. Yet, barely nothing is said about the power of relatioships/sex, traditionally held by women, being also shared with men. And those two systems, relationships/sex and money/power, are so intrinsecally connected, they may as well be one and the same; so much so, that I don’t believe you can have equality in one without having to have it in the other. Let me give you an example:
It’s a common complaint that, in each socioeconomic strata, women earn around %75 of what men earn. At the same time, on average, women choose to be in relationships with men who earn more than themselves.
Both of these things are not two separate problems, but symptoms of the one, real problem: The assumption, by both men and women, that it’s the role of the men to always be the providers, and never of the women.
Let’s say we treat the first symptom, and equalled the income of men and women in each strata; but not the second symptom; so women would still choose men who earn more than themselves. To do so, since now they have equal incomes, they would have to only choose men who are in a higher strata than themselves. The first to feel the effect of this would be the men of the lowest strata, since the women of that strata choose men of a higher strata, thus leaving the men alone. Keep this going a few generations and this would cause, first, a thining out, then, a dissapearence of the lower strata, since a bunch of lonely men can’t have children by themselves. If society somehow still holds up, you keep it going a few generations more, and the middle class (who is now your lower class, since the old lower class is no more) would go through the same.
Yes, it’s a crude and exaggerated example, but it is purposefully so to illustrate clearly the sort of dynamics I mean. The solution, of course, would be simple: Both men and women should be OK with either being the providers.
…Which sounds easier than it actually is, especially given the circumstances: When a man ties to earn a woman’s attention, being able to provide for her is one of the advantages he can offer. And, as long as she has the option to go with a man who can provide for her, how economically independent can she really be, having that “safety net”? And who can blame her? It’s tempting to have that option, to choose someone who can provide for both, who can give her finacial security; instead of having to provide for herself, or her being the one providing the finacial security.
.
It also sets an expectation; that a man is responsable for being able to fully provide not only for himself, but for the woman as well. Which is the opposite result to the trascendence of gender roles I wrote about up there.
I’m a feminist, I believe that women and men should be equal in the workplace. With women 77 cents the he dollar as well as trying to juggle kids as well this isn’t always possible. We’re living in a hard time.
Also, women don’t approach men as often because she’s seen as a slut. Once she gets that label she is disrespected, seen as “less than” and not worth knowing, and is opening herself to future possibly unwanted attention and possible harassment and violence.
“Men are afraid Women will laugh at them. Women are afraid Men will kill them.” – Margaret Atwood
As for your first statement; as I said above, I agree that women and men should have equal income for equal jobs; but that’s one half of the problem; to solve the other half, both women and men should be OK with either of them being the main provider. However: One of the advantages for women is that, being the one able to choose, women always have the option of only or mostly ‘accepting’ men who can provide for them, thus relieving the woman of having to be the sole or main provider; or in extreme cases, of even having to provide for herself at all.
Challenging the income difference between men and women, without at the same time challenging the fact of the same women pursuing relationships or marrying mostly men who earn more, is a conflictive position, to say the least: It’s the woman expecting to earn the same as the man in the workplace, yet simulteneously expecting the man to always earn more than her, back at home.
And the logical extension in a social scale of that mindset is what I tried to explain with the (admittedly crude) example above.
As for the second paragraph; well, then we, as a society, should stop viewing the approaching woman as a slut. The problem is, if we are speaking about equality; if men and women are truly equal; if every woman who appraches is “less than”, then every man who approaches is “less than” as well; and since pretty much every man has to approach, then every man is “less than” all of women, (Except the ones who approach.)
Ultimately, I think, if a woman really thinks equality is the way to go, she’ll do the approaching as well; without worrying what other people may think. If she truly believes in equality, she’ll follow it always, in the hard parts as well, rather than only when it’s easy.
As for the Margaret Atwood quote, I think what men are truly afraid of is being denied and invalidated, thus being left alone indefinitely, maybe forever. And, between death and a lifetime of forcibly being alone…
I’d like to see your data.
He didn’t kill six women. One of the victims has been identified as Christopher Martinez, a male. Three victims’ identities have not yet been released so we don’t know if they are men or women.
Shameful bandwagon jumping.
This is from the BBC website:
“But Peter Rodger’s lawyer, Alan Shifman, said on Saturday that the “family believes the child was the perpetrator”.
He said the son had Asperger’s syndrome, had trouble making friends and had been receiving professional help.”
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-27561127
So how about you bin the opportunism regarding forwarding your own biased views and wait a decent amount of time for all the facts to appear.
Reblogged this on Laura Lam.
Reblogged this on A Day in the Life and commented:
“This is what the Men’s Rights Movement teaches its members. Especially vulnerable, lonely young men who have a hard time relating to women. It teaches them that women, and especially feminist women, are to blame for their unhappiness. It teaches them that women lie, that they cheat, trick and manipulate. It teaches them that men as a social class are dominant over women and that they are entitled to women’s bodies. It teaches them that women who won’t give them what they want deserve some kind of punishment.”
So you blogged a comment that is a complete list of lies then. Way to go.
Just because you don’t like it, that doesn’t mean it’s a lie–doubly so when it’s the truth.
I find it interesting, how ‘pick-up artistry’ is equated to the men’s rights movement in this article. I think you know exactly what this is about, but the author of this article has found a way to manipulate this event into her disdain for MRAs, whatever that is. The result is a Swiss-cheese article that makes no sense. This man is a misogynist, simple and short. I do not see how any form of activism comes into it. So, if a woman goes out on an act of violence against men, does that make her a feminist? I see a vehement refusal to understand. I personally scorn anything antifeminist, such as the Men’s Right’s Movement and much of what they represent, but the reasoning behind this article is simplistic and bizarre. Pick-up artists not equal to men’s rights movement, and you know it.
Exactly, thank you.
So someone who posts several calm stoic videos talking about “retribution” and then goes around targeting women at random is mentally sound? Yes he was a misogynist but to quickly dismiss the fact that he’s mentally disturbed seems like it’s purely done to further your own agenda against men’s rights. men’s rights nonsense undoubtedly added fuel to the fire but I dismissing the mental health commentary doesn’t add to your credibility.
I took the liberty of translating the text to Spanish, my mother tongue. I’m just leaving it here in case you find it useful 😉 Thank you very much for the wonderful posts.
Click to access Elliot%20Rodger%20y%20los%20hombres%20que%20odian%20a%20las%20mujeres.pdf
Reblogged this on crazy dumbsaint of the mind.
6 women were not killed. 4 men, 2 women.
There are as many ways to be mentally ill as physically ill. I don’t believe that anyone who acted and believed as he did is a sane person. Society already believes a lot of screwed-up things and they are not going to suddenly start believing good things about the mentally ill just because you manage to dupe them into believing that wanting to murder women is a sane desire. Because that’s what you’re saying if you say he wasn’t “crazy.” The man was sick. HIS PARTICULAR sickness manifested in over-entitledness and mass homicide. Other people with sick brains might, and usually do, manifest in nonviolent ways. It is what it is.
Reblogged this on I eat sacred cows. They make the best hamburger!.
you sexist hate filled liar. His violent act had absolutely NOTHING to do with Men’s Right’s Activism. The ONLY link is that he felt alone, so he associated with a group which he felt sympathized. His actions have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with MRA’s.
If you ACTUALLY GAVE A CRAP about the poor victims of this incident, you would talk about them, NOT TURN IT INTO A TIRADE in a vain attempt to garner hatred for a movement which is far more legit than your hate movement.
You further go on to blatantly LIE about DV statistics, in which the MAJORITY of violence is committed by WOMEN (though only by a small margin), and the VAST majority of violence against children is committed by WOMEN (by a very large margin).
Furthermore, across the board, when all is tallied up, women are VERY privileged in our society, so you have absolutely no right whatsoever stating that our society demeans women in a million little ways, because whatever negative crap women get, men get the same twice over. Grow up.
You are either very delusional and misguided about the REAL WORLD, or you are a sick, and very screwed up individual, SEEK HELP.
wow, your first sentence really sums up what you are
he was both suicidal and homicidal….if that isnt a sign of mental illness, i dont know what is.
and he belonged to an internet subculture i had never heard of till this incident….so please dont blame society for what he did
…this should not have happened. or at least not at night, because then a determination could b made regarding victims. Elliott killed more men than women alluding to the lack of a plan; he also would conclude with killing himself; and there is no self respecting criminal that does that.
I am a former frequent poster on puahate shitty advice. I was about to post again just when this happened.
Your stupid post is mis-leading. Most Puahaters are angry because Society lies about relationships and sex.
We are told by women and men everywhere that personality matters most to women. Its a complete lie. What puahates seek is truth. The truth about relationships, social structures and sexual culture.
Truth is their is a heirachy and hypergamy exists. Women value looks, wealth and status symbols far more than what scamming pua’s let on
There are constant examples of women valuing these things over personality.
Its sick how society pretends this isnt the case constantly. Men who dont fit the bill get treated like dirt by everyone, then Elliot Rodger situations happen.
dah, he led a life of privilege, drove a BMW , was wealthy and better than average looking. What about women who dont fit the bill? Oh, of course, you would’nt care about that
There are no women who don’t fit the bill. Many men are concerned far more with quantity of partners than the quality, which is why its virtually unheard of for a woman to have the problems with the opposite sex that the members of PUA hate’s shitty advice section do.
And he didn’t judge by looks? In his videos he constantly refers to good looking blondes as being his ladies of choice. He never talks about wanting to meet a smart girl, a nice girl, always a beautiful blonde. He was the most shallow one of all.
Lies lies and ore lies.
fact :
Claiming that Elliot Rodger (the drive-by shooter) “was influenced by the Men’s Rights Movement.”
In fact, there is not one shred of evidence that Rodger was in any way connected with the Men’s Rights Movement.
He belonged to a website called: IPUAhate.com. That website has nothing to do with MRA’s or the Men’s Rights Movement. It is a consumer affairs website helping young men who have been ripped off by scam artists (mostly women owned companies) that claim they can help young men get dates with women. The website has been taken down.
1) I declare my allegiance to a group
2) I do something bad
3) All the people in the group I declared my allegiance to are bad
Pitifully few people seem to be able to see that 3) does not remotely follow from 1) and 2); that the group have no say whatsoever in what the individual does. I’m no fan of the PUAs or the PUA haters, but saying this guy killed women BECAUSE he was a member of PUA hate is like saying the Columbine massacre happened because of video games, when all we know is, the perpetrators liked video games. There’s *correlation*, and then there’s *causation*. For fuck’s sake, read the definitions, people.
Not to be a party pooper, but there were 3 men killed.
And, if he felt so entitled to women bodies, he would have forced women to have sex, not killed them.
Therefore, your argument is invalid.
You wrote “Asperger syndrome is not a mental illness – it is a neurological condition, and it does not predispose people to violence.” Being mentally ill also does not predispose one towards violence. One study I read showed that .001% of those with a mental illness ever commit a violent crime and when they do alcohol is almost always involved. Read further here: Dispelling the Myth of Violence and Mental Illness http://psychcentral.com/archives/violence.htm
“”There’s *correlation*, and then there’s *causation*. For fuck’s sake, read the definitions, people.””
couldnt have said it better
To say the shooting occurred because he was a member of some rights group,because he had aspergers(Really????), or because he was mentally ill is just another symptom of how sick todays society really is. To not assign personal responsibility to the person who committted an act just enables the contuation of such acts and future perpetraitors are able to justify these actions by the same standards we assign as cause to the previous ones to suit any given point of veiw and purpetuate it.
Now Ladies, remember, we Mustn’t yell at the oppressor just because it’s the X to the gazillionth powered time we’ve asked them politely to get their foot off our necks.
There’s a lot going on in the comments here. I’ll address just one thing: the claim that feminism is somehow to blame for men not having equal access to victim services. I’m a man who was raped twice when I was a young adult, and the ONLY place in my city of more than a million people where I and other men in my position can receive specialized counselling is at an agency with a specifically feminist agenda. My counsellor (a woman) uses feminist ideas in our counselling sessions (though that’s only a small part of what she does). I have never felt so supported in my life. No men’s groups do anything remotely similar, at least here.
I think the most basic thing most feminists (and females, in general) fail to realize is that a man and his penis are TWO SEPARATE THINGS. A man is very often a victim (sic!) of his own sexual desire. Man’s sex drive is much much stronger than woman’s and many times he’s unable to control it. It’s not the “culture” that teaches men violence towards women or feelings of entitlement to woman’s body. It’s biology. Of course a man can ignore his penis and just “get over it” if he gets repeatedly rejected by women but he will pay the price for that. Depression, neurosis, suicide, you name it. Of course a woman is unable to empathize, she has a different point of view. she thinks she’s the victim and man is the perpetrator while in reality they’re both victims of a man’s sex drive that he was too strong for him to control. So it’s not PUA, MRA or anything else that found Elliot Rodger and poisoned his brain. He found these movements because he couldn’t get what he so much desired. It’s biology. not culture.
Bullshit. We’re supposed to be civilized.
There’s a lot of people hopping onto the anti MRA bandwagon as a result of all this. Yeah, he was a member of the MRA and yeah, he killed those people…but does that mean that everyone who is an MRA member is going to do the same thing, or even that they uphold the views expressed by what was clearly a very disturbed person?
Ad hominem attacks and tarring with the same brush does not necessarily equate to integrity and/or credibility.
A bunch of people just died… Lets take this opportunity to push a feminist agenda!