I need to take a moment here to talk about the Men’s Rights Movement, because there seems to be some confusion. Actually, there seems to be a whole lot of confusion.
Over the past little while, I’ve had a number of people challenge me on calling out men’s rights activists (hereafter referred to as MRAs). “But men are oppressed too,” people say. “Feminism is sexist, and it teaches men that masculinity is wrong.” “Straight, white men aren’t allowed to be proud of themselves anymore.” “If you believe in equality, then you should want men to have the same type of activism as women.” “Everyone is entitled to their opinion.”
First of all, yes, everyone is entitled to their opinion. But let’s not pretend that all opinions are created equal – some are based on fact, and some are total bullshit. Like, I could tell you that I believe that vaccines cause autism, and that would be my opinion, but it would also be demonstrably untrue. So let’s not pretend that all opinions should be given the same consideration, because we both know better than that.
Second of all, let’s get one thing straight: men, as a group, do not face systematic oppression because of their gender. Am I saying that literally no men out there are oppressed? No, I am for sure not saying that. Men can and do face oppression and marginalization for many reasons – because of race, class, sexuality, poverty, to name a few. Am I saying that every white cishet dude out there has an amazing life because of all his amassed privilege? Nope, I’m not saying that either. There are many circumstances that might lead to someone living a difficult life. But men do not face oppression because they are men. Misandry is not actually a thing, and pretending that it’s an oppressive force on par with or worse than misogyny is offensive, gross, and intellectually dishonest.
MRAs believe that feminists are to blame for basically everything that’s wrong with their lives. The Men’s Rights Movement is a reactionary movement created specifically to counter feminism, and most (if not all) of their time and resources go towards silencing and marginalizing women. They do things like starting the Don’t Be That Girl campaign, a campaign that accuses women of making false rape reports. They attend feminist events in order to bully and intimidate women, they flood online feminist spaces with threatening messages, and they regularly use smear campaigns and scare tactics to make the women who don’t back down afraid for their physical safety. They do literally nothing to actually resolve the problems that they claim to care about, and instead do everything they can to discredit the feminist movement.
There are certainly issues that disproportionately affect men – the suicide rate among men is higher, as is the rate of homelessness. Men are more likely to be injured or killed on the job or because of violence. Men who are the victims of domestic abuse or sexual assault are less likely to report these things. These are the issues that MRAs are purportedly working on, and by “working on” I mean “blaming feminism for.” The problem is that none of these things are caused by feminism, or equal rights for women, or anything like that. You know what’s actually to blame for a lot of these issues? Marginalizing forces like class and race, for one thing – I mean, it’s not rich white men who are grappling with homelessness or dangerous workplaces or gun violence. You know what else is to blame? Our patriarchal culture and its strictly enforced gender roles which, hey, happens to be exactly the same power structure that feminism is trying to take down. The patriarchy has some fucked up ideas about masculinity, ideas that make men less likely to seek help for issues that they perceive to be too feminine – such as being hurt or raped by a female partner, not being able to provide for themselves, or not seeking help for health issues like depression and anxiety. On a societal level, it means that resources are not as readily available for men who face these challenges, because patriarchal ideas tell our courts, our governments and our charitable organizations that men don’t ever need that kind of help. Yes, the patriarchy overwhelmingly privileges the interests of men, but it also hurts men. It hurts men in all the ways that MRAs are apparently so concerned about, which means that you would think that MRAs would be totally on board with dismantling the patriarchy, but they’re not. Instead, they would rather blame women for their problems.
See, the problem with the Men’s Rights Movement is that they are not doing anything concrete to resolve any of the above issues. They are not raising money to open shelters for homeless or abused men. They are not starting up suicide hotlines for men. They are not lobbying for safer workplaces or gun control. Instead, they are crying about feminism, pooh-poohing the idea of patriarchy and generally making the world a sadder, scarier, less safe place to live in. In fact, I would argue that their stupid antics are actually a detriment t0 the causes that they claim to espouse, because they’re creating an association between actual real issues that men face and their disgusting buffoonery. So good fucking job, MRAs. Way to fuck vulnerable men over in your quest to prove that feminism is evil. I hope you’re all really proud of yourselves.
The Men’s Rights Movement is not “feminism for men.” It’s not some kind of complimentary activism meant to help promote equal treatment of men and women. And it fucking most certainly is not friendly towards women, unless we’re talking about women with crippling cases of internalized misogyny. I believe in equality for men and women, but I also believe that we’re not born with an even playing field. Women still face disenfranchisement, discrimination and a lack of basic freedoms and rights, and although feminism has done a lot of great work over the last century or so, we still haven’t undone several millennia’s worth of social programming and oppression. So that’s why it’s not “men’s turn” to have a social justice movement. That’s why we have the fem in feminism. That’s why fairness and equality involve promoting the empowerment of women, rather than promoting the empowerment of both genders in equal amounts. Because, to use a stupid analogy here, if one person starts out with no apples and another person starts out with five apples and then you give them both three apples each in the name of fairness, one person still has five more fucking apples.
So yes, let’s talk about issues that affect men. Let’s come up with solutions for problems that disproportionately hurt men, like suicide and homelessness and violent deaths (while at the same time recognizing that the fact that there are issues that affect more men than women does not mean that men are oppressed because of their gender). Let’s work on opening up shelters for abused men, let’s create campaigns bringing awareness to the fact that men are also the victims of rape, and let’s pressure the government to improve workplace safety. But let’s find a way to do this that’s not at the expense of women. Instead, let’s join together and fuck up the patriarchy real good, because that way everyone wins.
p.s. If you actually think that straight white men aren’t encouraged to be “proud” of themselves you need to check your privilege a million times over and then check it some more because seriously
How I Feel About MRAs
The Belle Jar 
‘But men do not face oppression because they are men.’ Absolute rubbish. So when my mother was believed over my dad in court when he said my sister and I wanted joint custody but she said we didn’t, despite voice recordings of us saying it – that wasn’t blatant discrimination against my dad because he’s a man? And when the CSA were reluctant to award my dad CS when he got custody, yet they happily awarded my mother it – that wasn’t blatant discrimination against him because he’s a man? When my brother took his son to the medical centre and was made to feel like a criminal, filling in forms that the mum wouldn’t have had to and being asked why the mum wasn’t there – that wasn’t blatant discrimination against him because he’s a man?He was a father, not a mother. And for some reason, everyone around us believed that that instantly gave him less rights. Xxx
It’s discrimination, not oppression. It’s the same thing as a white person being made to feel unwelcome in a neighborhood. It’s discriminatory, but not the same thing as oppression. It sucks, and it’s not really fair, but for it to qualify as oppression your dad and brother would have to face whole nother levels of daily prejudice, violence, and basic disenfranchisement
Because at the end of the day, your average woman has had to face far more, far worse things
And, this discrimination against men as caregivers is patriarchal. Men are assumed to be unnurturing, emotionally vacant. Little boys are forbidden to play with dolls, told to “man up” when they cry, etc
“Because at the end of the day, your average woman has had to face far more, far worse things”
And who says you guys don’t say men have better lives
Um no. The idea that the essence of masculinity, or fatherhood is cold and unnuturing, is a feminist hate concept. Men are natural providers and helpers of women and children, it’s so built into our biological nature, that the only to remove it, is to condition it out. The very fact you would say this, and blame it on men, is an example of consistent, daily discrimination of the sort, your yourself says qualifies as oppression.
The main complaints of modern feminism range from non-existant pay gaps, to ‘I don’t have my fav type of women in movies and video games’, to ‘there’s a rape culture’ when studies show over half of allegations are false to ‘that man stuff people do like sitting and farting, is digusting’ which is really just a bunch of we hate you.
Compare that with forced enlistment in the military, longer sentencing in prison for the same crime, less due process in rape trials, less fairness in family courts, less voice in the media, less ability to voice out concerns, no ability to ever claim on average positive attributes without being derided for being sexist, and a global agenda to describe men as rapists, murderers, and bad fathers.
The former, seems like a bunch of partly made up wah-wah. The later seems quite serious and is fully scientifically verified. The former is based on the systemic blaming of men for all of societies issues. The later is based on a real understanding of social contracts and gender politics.
o, we are oppressed. Super oppressed, like if we speak up, too loud, there’s a lynch mob, oppressed. Who do you think doxxes people on the internet? Feminists who don’t like when men take their turn to speak. Why do you think this article, and you yourself are silencing and inviladting our concerns? Whta greater sign of oppression than a complete lack of ability to speak?
What happens when you stand next to a pre-school? maybe walk a mile in our shoes, before you femsplain all our issues away, huh?
If it’s systemic, and it absolutely is, it’s oppression.
That’s because most people who cry oppression are infantile fantasists, and there is usually zero factual evidence for it. Take feminists – not a single systemic disadvantage, and in fact a fair few advantages, and yet, lol, somehow the delusional peddle western women’s oppression. We’d be far better if we just talked about discrimination, oppression is a word loaded with the ramblings of high as a kite intersectionalists who believe in outright religious ideology like patriarchy.
The real reason that the feminists and their cooperate supporters are so much attacking the MRM is because the MRA debunks the central tenants of feminism such as patriarchy theory, male privilege, oppression of women for the benefit of men and gender being a purely social construct. When Feminist theories are exposed to sound logic and valid research, Feminism no longer has a leg to stand on. So the Feminists are trying really hard to smear the reputation of the MRM, and their cooperate supporters are definitely lending them a hand because their whole racketeering scamming of gender relations will come to an end if people really start learning the truth from the MRAs.
Wow. You sound like you’re in a cult or something. Drink the kool aid, much?
Feminism has ALL of the legs to stand on. You just sound pretty butthurt, go get a donut to sit on and educate yourself.
Lol. Nice!
RIght. Because as much as Feminist say they want to help men too, when a group of men, meet to discuss male suicide rates, Feminist decided to attack them and have to gall to ask why they would even want to go to non feminist meetings.
Which you know, doesn’t descibe the near fascist authoritarianism of feminism at all does it?
Logic and reason are a cult apparently, and resisting logic and reason are apparently not at all cult like. What an upside down view of the world!
Feminists don’t like mens rights activists speaking, because every time we engage them in debate, they look like idiots. Pure and simple, they use emotion, we use facts – and we make some pretty great parodies of smelling salts, fainting couch feminism. They have never had their delusional worldview questioned, and they know if it is, the house of cards will crumble. Otherwise if we were so bigoted, and so obviously full of crap, they’d be inviting us to speak, and inviting us to say what we have to say. The truth speaks for itself, and the only reason feminists want to shut us up, as the above article tries to do, is because they know, in their hearts, exactly what will happen when their ideas come up against real, reasoned questioning and opposition, the same way communist dictators knows what will happen if they don’t control the media- the bullshit will unravel.
He sounds butt-hurt? Nice way to imply that he was an unwilling participant in anal sex and then make fun of him for it.
Oh wait, I thought only men make jokes about rape. Something about rape-culture, right?
Well yeah. We have used reason to tear massive holes in the lies that have been sold for decades, and our ‘masculinist theory’ which is based around the social contract, and our issues, based in solid science, is robust as hell. There’s nowhere to do from their, but try and prevent people from even looking into it, or thinking about it, from the gynocracies point of view.
Exacty. We as a group, logically debunk the basic entirety of feminism. Of course they gonna attack us, label us as the devil, because go forbid someone hear the actual arguments.
Nothing could be more telling than ‘don’t look here’, and ‘everything these guys say is evil’, it’s transparent AF.
“So yes, let’s talk about issues that affect men. Let’s come up with solutions for problems that disproportionately hurt men, like suicide and homelessness and violent deaths”
But lets do it from within a feminist framework? When we do organize a talk about male suicide the entrance gets blocked and the fire alarm gets pulled. I can’t believe you’d have the cheek to say MRAs bully feminists with all their shenanigans at MRA events.
I mean this is all the same old same old ignorant nonsense. You’d be better off reading The Myth of Male Power and Who Stole Feminism? before writing another piece about men’s rights. So I will just dismiss most of it out of hand without doing a point by point.
If 40% of women had their labia removed at birth without a sufficient anesthetic because the parents thought it was “cleaner” or “looked better”, I bet you’d call that oppression.
Not many MRAs actually think men are the most oppressed group, but there really is oppression there. Feminism is doing absolutely nothing to help, so let us get on with it rather than writing misinformed snarky blog entries.
Let men speak about what they think their problems are rather than telling them what their problems are.
Are you serious? Look up the percentage of women worldwide who have had circumcision. Though I’m not for the corcumcision of either gender, at least sex is still pleasurable for men afterwards.
Male circumcision do have health benefits which female circumcision do not have, It can be argued that male circumcision benefits the male on some grounds but not on others. However, very few men really complain about male circumcision. Another reality is that countries where most boys are circumcised, most men want circumcision for their kids, men who appose circumcision are most likely not circumcised. If you ask men in Philippines, by far the majority believe boys must be circumcised, while 96% of them are circumcised. Ask a European man, then he believes circumcision is abuse, yet very few of them are circumcised. What I am saying is, the more boys are circumcised, the more men support it. If it was abuse of boys then the boys who were circumcised would have been the ones complaining the most about it, yet the opposite are true, those who are circumcised support it more. Im sure people who are abused or who suffer as a result of something are not going to grow up to support it. Untill the men of circumcising countries start to protest against it, I will not accept that circumcision is in anyway abuse or oppression of males.
Some anti male circumcision groups claim that no medical organization supports circumcision. Yet the WHO and UN mandate 14 African countries to upscale male circumcision to 80% to reduce HIV, CDC wanted to mandate it at a point, AAP now state that the benefits outweigh the risks, UNICEF the united nations organization for children supports male circumcision programs for boys…Medical Research Council in South Africa promote male circumcision. not only are there medical organizations who support it, But the biggest and most powerful of medical organizations are supporting it. What no medical organization ever stated was that male circumcision is abuse or human rights violations. Why? because it isn’t.
In USA a group tried to ban it, they failed, circumcision then more protected by law than ever before. Some in Germany tried to ban it, but failed, it was made legal. Some pushed the EU to ban it, they ended up officially allowing it. Nowhere even in the most anti-circumcision countries do they get it right to convince the powers that male circumcision is bad for society, every time it gets reinforced with legalization. while we don’t see any countries banning male circumcision, we see more countries who never circumcised before start with male circumcision programs now. It would not be the case if circumcision was evidently harmful to men.
Therefore we cannot compare it with female circumcision where a great deal of complaints against it is raging from the women who experience it
It’s nice to see some statistics on this. AS a man, I am in support of the choice of parents whether to do this to their boys or not. I realise the benefits, as well as the opposition. It’s not abuse, when there is so much proof that the benefits outweigh any detriments (which are really more like temporary drawbacks).
Circumcision spread to gentiles in the 19th century UK to stop masturbation.
Face it. You were ripped off, literally.
Face it. You were ripped off,literally.
Genital mutilation is mutilation.
As a man with a foreskin I can tell you you are absolutely full of shit. Genital mutilation is genital mutilation.
Although isn’t bodily mutilation always a human rights violation when done without consent? I mean, sure most fellows don’t complain, but objectively, is it moral to chop bits off people without them giving the go ahead?
It’s an interesting argument. I wouldn’t compare the two although they are probably both arguable wrong. But in your argument for example you ignore that male circumcision is routinuely practiced and accepted, much more common, female circumcision is not. In fact you use that as an argument to ignore it (it’s prevelance and acceptance). I would think that would be more of a reason more thought is needed on the topic, that so little is generally given. By contrast most cultures and people find female circumcision horrific. Sure, lose of sexual sensitivity is not as bad, can’t miss a pleasure you’ve never had either, but a sexually stunting body part removing operation who’s supposed health benefits are completely contradicted by both the disadvtages and any evidence on the topic, probably shouldn’t be one of the least culturally considered and highly popular activities. It’s wildly thoughtless, and if you think or research about it, probs does have harms…
Yes the idea feminists would ever champion or help a male rights issue, ever, is completely laughable. They have no track record of ever doing that, no credible indication they ever will. In fact, like this article, they spend a significant amount of time, ensuring men have no voice at all. That whole angle, is just obviously, a bald faced lie. It fact, it’s just silly and rudicrous.
I have several issues with feminism.. But, None of them have anything to do with females having equal rights. It has to with the way some go about supporting the cause.. some of the things people do in the name of feminism is what causes some people, both male and female discredit and not take the movement seriously. Also some of the articles that are written, like one in particular that I read which told me from begining to end that I need to be aware of every thing i do around females and not act as a man when interacting with females in public, be aware of my posture or how I approach females even while just walking down the street past them because females live in constant fear of being raped and i may intimidate them… Special treatment based on sex seems to be the opposite of what feminist want, but i am being told i must treat them different in every aspect.. I don’t “tip toe around the tulips” around other males, so i shouldn’t be told do so around women, when “equality” is what you want… There is the issue of feminists acting as their cause is the most important, even this author stating “it isn’t your turn” Female rights take priority over anyone else’s? What about basic human rights? Every person around the world should have absolute equality as humans before people balk about not getting the same jobs or the same pay. Or, even in the feminist movement it’s self.. Some matters are more important that others. For instance, women not being murdered for going out at night, or driving, and not having their sex organs mutilated because of religion is considerably more important than equal pay or job offers.. I’ll stop before I write a novel about what is wrong with the feminist movement….
Women have equal rights already. 100% no rights or laws work against women. Actually they have better rights than men, especially when it comes to family law.
It should be termed “The Ugly,fat,stupid,bigoted WHITE men’s rights movement,because those disgustingly racist Troglodytes hate black men-ESPECIALLY us life-size Brads-from 1968-’72,Brad was Barbie’s then-boyfriend Ken’s handsome black buddy;Yours Truly is a
black Canadian lad,61,said to be cover boy handsome,muscular,beefy-I’m 5’9″,205-210 lb.,boasting 181/2” biceps,though like a LOT of older chaps,I’m attempting to lose about 25 lb.-and resemble a handsome black cowboy stud IN AND OUT of my Wranglers jeans and other casual and/or Western garb.They’d see someone like me and say I was taking “their” jobs and women (who,of course,can’t resist a black lovin’ lad such as I!!!!)BECAUSE I’m black and,of course,got every think because of “affirmative action.”(As opposed to their “golf club hires!!!!”)
In short,these fat,whiny b****es and their two-inch boy parts blame EVERYONE BUT THEMSELVES for being odious,nasty,dull-normal-or-dumber Bubbas!!!!
Yeah, yeah, cause that doesn’t sound like KKK level bigotry against men at all. You know, anyone interested in mens rights- well they are like, satan aye? Pretty sure there’s a few hateful radical feminists. And some in the gay rights movement. That’s pretty much 100% normal for any human rights movement. So your going to put that on us, like someone else saying ‘feminists are all man hating angry violent lesbians”. Hmm?? How about if I gender flip for you, so you can see your priviledge?
Michael,you’re SPOT ON about how feminism has infantilized women,but some of these Men’s Rightists are plain misanthropes,as I’m sure you’d agree.
I agree with you about the “men’s rights movement” being garbage. The further us women get in life; the closer to any resemblance of equality, the men want to kick us back in our “places.” The truth is that men do not need any more rights. We live in a patriarchy as it is; what more do they want? Total subordination from us, and access to our bodies 24/7? Men need to start taking responsibility for their (putrid) actions. Who rapes, murders, sexually assaults, dominates, intimidates, beats, etc. women? Certainly not the Easter bunny. Anytime us women have anything to say that rings a bit of truth, they want to silence us. Sounds like the mras want us women barefoot and pregnant, and in the kitchen once more. They are afraid of us feminists, and inherently know we are right, so they try and prove to the world that we are all evil and delusional. Male privilege DOES exist. When I am in a taxi, and the driver asks me if I have children, or are married, my response is always the same. I tell HIM that if I were a guy, he would not be asking me those invasive questions. Why not ask me about the weather, or why doesn’t he just SHUT UP AND DRIVE me to where I am paying him to go?! All of these little instances in my day add up, and are almost exhausting to deal with. These mra’s are taking us feminists’ problems, and are trying to make them their own. They are cowards who try and shut us up and sensor us by harassment, and threats. If they were a truly upstanding organization, they would not do this. W Us women choose to exercise our right to free speech, and the poor mras can’t deal with us and what we are saying. We will not be silenced!!
Hi, I totally agree
Feminism is luckily growing at a faster rate as MRA’s. But what MRA’s teach us is that feminist are right. What feminist must watch out for is men who act as feminist infiltrating feminist leadership. There are guys like Dr Warren Ferral who are one of the most renowned MRA’s who was for 3 years on the chair of NOW. Feminist will benefit from focusing on female leadership in their own ranks.
I do believe that increasing male involvement in feminism is important but only up to a certain level. The male patriarchal instincts will always come back ones men have that power.
Furthermore Male rights movement has been there since the 1970s, and while men had the majority rule over society, even when men had much more power over women, the MRAs could not manage to accomplish anything to prevent feminist to multiply and to spread globally.
Today women have much more power and the feminist movement spreads at much faster rate as MRAs, The more power women have the more acceptable and powerful the feminist movement becomes and the more resistance there is to MRA’s
Since the Millennium Development Goals of the United Nations was accepted globally in 2000, More modern laws say that all programs, laws and funding must be to empower women. This helps feminists groups to develop faster and puts pressure on MRAs.
More men today support the feminist movement and this also adds pressure on MRA’s
The empowerment of women brought more value to the lives of both men and women, it brought more freedom to both men and women. I don’t have to go to war any more thanks to women, my brother which is older had to go to army whether he liked it or not and could get arrested if he refuse or not abey orders, Feminism saved me from that with their focus on human rights and liberating people. I don’t have to go to church anymore before you would be called a Satanist for not attending church or a religion. I don’t have marry anymore, I live a single life without being mocked, I can have whatever sexuality I want, I don’t have to be sole provider for the family anymore while the wife adds much more to the financial security nowadays. How many men who lost their jobs in the credit crunch had their wives to fall back on? Or boys who lost a father as a child and had a working mother providing them with a quality life and education which would not have been possible if she was not working or earning less.
Feminism brought much more progress and advantages than the patriarchal system. MRA’s often point to family courts that are bias to men, but never make reference to the fact that feminism helped to create a world where men are free to choose if they want to remain single, get married, divorce if unhappy, or live gay or whatever they choose to be, which the patriarchal system never allowed much freedom of choice. Men are free to choose if they want to accept the family law or not, if they want to get married or have sex or not. Feminism gave men those freedoms. So why cry about something while you gained the freedom to choose if you want it or not.
Some institutions like universities starts banning MRA’s
Governments starts monitoring activities of MRA’s online more, US now start monitoring internet comment lines for abusive languages against women that MRA’s must watch out for.
Feminism have become more socially accepted by both men and women and any references to patriarchal becomes socially less acceptable.
While we see more trolling of MRA’s online, more abusive language and MRA’s heading out to discredit feminism more, so do they show the world how they are and why we must not take them seriously.
Where I am, 15 years ago MRAs could argue if a woman is raped and she was sexy and seductive, that she was asking for it, it was valid. Today if MRA’s make a statement like that they are Boo!! out by society and no court would listen to that. If a man hit a women, MRA’s would be supported when they say “but she was looking for trouble”, today MRA’s are ignored since we all accept now that hitting of women is not acceptable in any form anymore.
The bottom line is, MRAs are not acting out more aggressively because they are gaining power, they are because they are losing power faster than ever. They became powerless. Tolling has increased but they are losing power at a faster rate. Not only are they losing power, but feminism is till gaining power and influence and support by both men and women faster than ever. The ideals of feminism is falling into place faster and gets accepted more, while MRA’s Ideals are rejected more and more. This piss them off and results in them acting out more irrationally adding to reason why people would take them less seriously because of their irrational arguments and misbehavior. MRAs are losing power as they fail more and more to have their ideals recognized while global powers, media, law makers, industry are more and more buying into feminist ideals, feminists succeed more and more. All MRAs have left is trolls, a few books that don’t sell It now only becomes a place where angry men who are not yet ready to accept the powerful roles of women to go blow off steam. They are not gaining any power.
More men realize that the more power women gain in society the better society becomes, and that its not about being equal so much, how do you measure equality in anyway? But what is important is to empower women for as long as it benefits society and to give women more and more power until the rape and abuse of women are irradiated.
More powerful global organizations are starting to define MRA’s as counter intuitive to the empowerment of women and going against the Millennium development goals, to empower women.
UN organizations are also showing more interest in studying matriarchal societies and the advantages of them.
More MRAs get exposed for involvement in illegal scandals, I think the aggression we see from MRA’s are because they are on their knees and realize they are powerless to stop the feminist movement. They sense the patriarchal boat is sinking very fast and faster and they are powerless to stop it and more people are welcoming it.
The only thing the women movement does is put women in direct competition with men. The result is a lack of real women and an abundance of women who behave like second rate men!
Its only true for those who choose to compete, you can choose if you want to fight it or join it. Those who join it, benefit from it, those who fight it remains in a never ending battle. I have many female owned businesses supplying me services and they outperform many male owned businesses I used before, These women have been nothing but good for my business. So I could fight it an see how opportunities gets less and suffer and blame feminism, or I can join it, bring them in and see how my business benefit from the good service they provide.
Its MRA’s attitude towards feminism and female power that place them in the position to blame feminism. You can choose if feminism is going to be a problem for you or not. A man can abuse women and have his ass kicked and blame his pain on feminists, or he can respect women, support them in their quest for empowerment and get respect and support back from them in return. a win-win situation. Its simple social rules. Often men find themselves in an unfortunate position he blames on feminism because of what he does and because of his attitude towards women. A man who change his attitude to women, who devote himself to respecting women and support their empowerment will get much respect and support back from women.
If women could survive in a world ruled by men, men would be able to survive in a world ruled by women. If a woman can work for a male boss, a man can work for a female boss. If it is ok for a man to be the head of the family, it is ok if a woman can also head the family. For thousands of years women lived under the total power of men, but now when its women turn to have power, men chicken out and is not strong enough to deal with it.
Its time for men to lay down the weapons and support women in their quest to the top, to leadership and our future. Both men and women would gain many benefits from it, Besides when feminism was 0.1% as powerful as they are now, men with all their rule and power could not stop them from growing in power, MRA’s was stronger but failed. today MRA’s have much less power and feminism is gaining power at exponential rates, MRA’s cannot stop them, they can only piss them off.
When men ruled and send men to war to return in body bags, men was proud and did not bother with rights, today women rise in power and want men to support them and give men freedoms from such horrors, men suddenly feel women are compromising their rights? really? When men hanged men for rape it was all good, now that women bring human rights and want to rather rehabilitate rapists, now mens rights are compromised. really? Despite the few sacrifices men had to make to make way for women, men have a lot to thank women for. Things men benefit and give women no credit for, starting with most of your freedoms. Men must just realize they cant have it all. Nobody can. But the feminist movement is necessary for a better word and I wish more men would see it.
But instead some men want to compete against women, but they are fighting a war that cannot be won. They try and end up wounded and then blame women for their pain. Because the feminist movement is like a 300tn runaway train and MRAs is like one man trying to stop it and end up hurt. Stop resisting the feminist movement and work with it, and things will become 200% better, MRA’s think its getting to the equality it aimed for while in fact it just started, feminism is not just full speed ahead, it is still accelerating and growing. I know long ago I also supported MRAs until I realized its pointless and fruitless and its more destructive than anything else. Give women a fair chance and see how awesome they are.
Lol, your upset about perfectly valid social generalisations that occur all the time for everyone. Myopic. Modern feminist issues are a bunch of made up whinging, just like the ridiculous example you provided. As a man, I get people assuming I am into sports all the time. Am I offended? Hell no, this is how social animals operate, and always will. Unlike smelling salts, feinting couch feminism, I can actually deal with reality.
Hi, I am sorry for commenting late on this article, but I am researching the MRA’s and their obsession with combating feminism and I have found this article. MRA’s are extremely hypocritical, I am very confused as to why they expect feminism to equally focused on male issues. They seems to be angry about how feminism is mainly focused on female issues, even though they know that feminism was created by women for women (even though it does benefit men). Because of this, they accuse feminists of being sexist and hypocritical. Which is really strange. Anti-racism groups do not have to benefit white people, gay rights groups don’t have to benefit straight people and so on. No equal rights group has to campaign for issues outside that group. ESPECIALLY the advantaged group. Never ever. Full stop. So why does feminism need to be equally focused on male issues? Yet the MRM does not benefit women at all and does not have any focus on female issues (besides pretending that they don’t exist, hence all the ‘What about teh Menz’ comments on feminist websites), yet they seem to see this as acceptable? Don’t they see how hypocritical this is?! I just don’t get it! They accuse feminism of being sexist and hypocritical for not extending the benefits to the opposite sex (even though feminism does) and yet they go on to do exactly that-they have created a group that only benefits themselves. Mind boggling! And this whole feminism having to change its name to ‘humanism’ or ‘egalitarianism’, what’s up with that? What is so offensive about the word prefix ‘fem’? Is it because it means female? I am so confused! They also accuse feminism to be a hate movement, yet MRA’s fill every article about female issues with misogyny, whether they are feminist or not. Even though most well researched and well presented feminist video on Youtube gets flooded with offensive comments that most of them don’t allow comments anymore. Yet even the most hateful MRA video is accepted. There seems to be a huge double standard-fighting for female rights is ‘bad’ and fighting for male rights is ‘good’. Misogyny is good while misandry is bad. This is why the world needs feminism.
It’s pretty straight forward, Elaine. Feminism as a whole claims to be about equal rights for both genders, not biased towards women. And that it doesn’t actually promote equal rights, rather it promotes the concept of women having more privileges than children and men. So where are the equal rights in that? That’s the big issue MRAs have with it. I agree that there is too much emphasis on battling feminism. But that’s another issue…
Hi Elain MRA does not hate women, but have some anger about the situation that cause them to voice alot of frustration the same way feminist often do
To explain this to you, let me start by saying. feminists say there should be no MRA because feminism is for gender equality, and looks after the rights of both sexes. But as MRAs know and yourself as you stated in your comment, Feminism is mostly only concerned with the rights of women. So can men really depend on feminism to look after their rights? No they cannot as feminist have done nothing to address the issues which men face. I went to look at the mission statement of NOW, and a few other feminists groups, not one of the objectives include men or their issues. They all focus only on female issues. Therefore in reality feminism does not include male issues at all. even though many claim it to be so in theory. In really I have never seen any proof of feminists addressing any male issues.
So the logical thing would be that if feminist do not want to include the rights and needs of men in their movement and activism, then obviously men would have to do it themselves. So this created the need for a mens rights movement so that men can look at their issues the same way women look at theirs within feminism.
However, every time men want to discuss matters or have a meeting to discuss issues which affect them. Then feminist jump in to stir fights and arguments as MRAs often do on feminist sites. When MRA want to have a meeting to talk about male issues which affects men which feminists appose or ignore, then feminist break down the building (so to speak) to prevent men and women from talking about male issues.
It is equivalent to having one religion who say there is only one religion and thats ours. all people must be muslim or be an enemy. This is how feminist reasons about MRAs
So the problem MRAs do have with feminists are that feminist do not want to address issues what men are threatened with, and there are many. Feminst usually turn around and say that male problems are created by the patriarchy therefore we can dismiss it. But when men want to use the same freedom of speech which feminist enjoy to discuss their issues, them feminist want to protest against mens freedom of speech. This is an oppression of freedom of speech.
So what feminism has been demonstrating is, that only women should have rights, or have their problems addressed since feminism is not concerned with male rights or at least those that matter to men. And any group who dare consider the issues men have, must be condemned and abolished as a hate group. Only feminist may have a freedom of speech and only women may gain rights and only men may be incriminated, enslaved or have their freedom of speech condemned.
MRAs do not expect feminist to consider the rights of men which they claim they do and claim they dont depending on the argument. All MRAs want is for feminist to leave them alone and to practice their freedom of speech, the same freedom of speech feminist enjoy everyday. To deny men that is a form of oppression or dictatorship and dominance from feminists and is nothing better than that women accused the patriarchy off. A respectable group will have their opinion but also respect the opinion of others even if they differ.
MRA is a response to a feminist movement that became gynocratic by nature and the greatest evidence of it is the feminist perception that only they have a freedom of speech and only their ideals may be allowed and only areas where female human rights are at stake should action be taken. This demonstrate the highest level of hypocrisy and double standards.
MRAs can live in peace aside feminism, as they are often fighting for the same goal of equality and human rights. However as long as feminism want to condemn them, they will logically strike at feminists. But I know feminism will never be friendly to mens rights of mens freedom of speech and therefore I can safely say, the war between feminists and MRAs are only beginning.
The only alternative to MRA for men is, for men to go their own way, to opt out of society, marriage and relationships, this process have already started as only 23% of men are still interested in marriage. And as Dr Helen Smith wrote in her book Men on Strike, its not because of porn or free sex, the problem goes much deeper than that. This is what happens when feminism fails men, and MRAs fail to resolve issues in time. This is a problem that will soon reach global proportions as the “grass eaters” from the Asian world are emerging and the MGTOW from the western world. These are not movements but rather a phenomena where men are opting out, or as the book of Dr Helen Smith state “men on strike” as the world become increasingly hostile towards men and their identity and their right to be men. however while feminist can still protest and shut MRA’s up, they cannot force men who opt out of society, to love, marry or respect women. That cannot be forces on men through feminism. That however is a runaway train. That is a direct response to a feminist society which is not very male friendly with a entire new set of consequences for society and women.
Me myself in my late 30’s dont want to ever marry or have children, I refuse to work in the corporate world and instead created my own business to get away from politics of feminism and legal consequences of being a man. The funny thing is, both my step brothers do the same, my neighbor do the same, im the youngest one of 3, none of my other two siblings want children. So the alternative to men having a active position to handle their issues, they will use a passive position to handle their issues by going their own way which may leave society with some new problems.
As you would see I didnt swear, or said nasty things about women in any way, I have not been disrespectful but explained the situation the most accurate to my knowledge to answer your problem. I hope it helped.
Excuse me, but this comment was a question directed to author of the article. It was not directed at you. Please do not respond with a wall of text to questions that have not being directed at you personally. As for ‘Feminism is mostly only concerned with the rights of women. So can men really depend on feminism to look after their rights? No they cannot as feminist have done nothing to address the issues which men face’ Feminism CAN NOT address the issues that men face, because feminism is about women (hence its name). Men and women face different issues and these issues can ONLY be solved by men, Feminists have worked hard to improve the lives of women, often facing extreme opposition. We got off our butts and did something. Men have to do the same. We are not going to do all your work for you.And “All MRAs want is for feminist to leave them alone and to practice their freedom of speech,” Well, you we want is for MRA’s to do the same and not troll every feminist site they see.
PS Sorry for the typo.
Also, I suggest that you read these 3 articles. They explain, (among other things) why feminism does not have to benefit men to be worth while.
http://www.thefword.org.uk/features/2003/09/feminists_are_sexist
http://birthanarchy.com/stop-with-your-sexist-temper-tantrum-feminism-isnt-the-problem/
http://birthanarchy.com/stop-with-your-sexist-temper-tantrum-feminism-isnt-the-problem/
Pay special attention to this paragraph from the first article:
“I’m getting really, really tired of having to justify feminism by explaining how it also benefits men……. What I’m angry about is not the genuine male enquirers who honestly wonder why ‘nobody complains about the stereotyping of men’…….it’s the anti-feminist men who attack us for daring to get involved in a movement which aims to improve the lives of women.
What this is really about is men accusing feminists of sexism and hypocrisy unless they can prove that they spend exactly half of their time, energy, and resources on campaigning on behalf of men. What this is really about is that if feminism only improves the lives of women, it has no value or importance. What this is really about is that feminism only has value if it works on behalf of men and improves the lives of men. What this is really about is anti-feminist men being threatened by women working for women. What they’re really saying is that to talk about women, to focus on women, to point out that something affects women badly; all of this is of no importance or value. It’s classic, really – because men are not always the focus of attention of feminism, these anti-feminists can’t stand it.
What this is about is that some men can’t stand not being the centre of attention.”
1) you made no reference to the fact that you where speaking only to the author, so its safe to assume you spoke to everyone.
2) I do not have a problem that feminist only look at female rights. I do have a problem that feminist try to mislead people with the statement that feminist are there fore the rights of both men and women, as you clearly state is a false representation of feminism. Mean while most feminist out trolling MRA sites claim that feminism is both for men and women’s rights which you admit is false. Thats where the hypocrisy comes in. not that feminist fight for women’s rights, but they claim to fight for mens rights equally depending on what the argument is. Emma Watsons speech draw some attention to that element. She claim that feminism benefits men while the context of HeForShe hence the name, make it clear it has nothing to do with men benefiting at all. its a false representation to attract male support.
3) MRAs troll feminist sites in no different way that feminist troll MRA sites.
4) most of the war between feminist and MRAs are unnecessary, however there are a few legit areas where feminist have actively tried and succeeded to impose and destroy basic human rights of men which is worthy of criticism. While I believe that many MRAs wrongly consider them as anti-feminist because both still fight for some form of gender equality out of first principals. I do believe that most MRA who call themselves anti feminist should rephrase it to a more correct term such as feminist critics.
MRAs are not as apposed to feminism as they claim to, not when you examine what they do to its core. Anti-feminist It is something i consider wrongful labeling. It is as false as what some people who are unsocial commonly wrongly refer to themselves as antisocial. its a label error.
MRA’s dont want feminist to fight for mens rights, they want feminist to stop saying they are when they are not. when it suits them, they are and when it suits them, they are not.
MRA’s dont want feminist to fight for mens rights, they just want feminist to leave them alone while they are at it and not protest, block streets, rip off posters and pull fire alarms when men what to discuss issues that affects them.
MRAs are in general to its core not anti feminists, but are as much a critic of some elements of feminism as what various factions of feminism is critics to the other factions.
The other problem MRAs have with feminists are that it is impossible to engage in any form of conversation or reasoning. no matter how civil, rational you try to explain things, feminists always refer to their ideologies, quick answer phrases, and do anything but to engage in a out of the box rational debate and when they dont get their way, they become offensive, rude and insulting because they cannot win the debate.
It is almost like a astrophysicist trying to stand in-front of a church explaining how earth was formed, What is his chances of success, about equal to a MRA discussing gender issues with a feminist. Feminist handle their critics the same as that Christians handle scientists. The problem comes in when the astrophysicist want to explain the creation of earth to his physics class and then the church comes and burn down his class. that is how feminism is trying to oppress and suppress men talking about their issues. when they block of roads, pull fire alarms and so on. Feminist have a lot in their own behavior and single sided ideologies to answer for before pointing fingers at MRAs.
Because when you start denying people their freedom of speech when your movement want to pose as a gender tribunal where feminism is the prosecuter and the judge and see it right to deny MRAs as defendant equal opportunity to speak in the gender arena, then I gather that feminism have a lot of their own principles they preach about freedom of speech, equality and fairness to re-evaluate within their own system.
If feminism truly are what it claim to stand for, it would have respected mens contribution to independently participate in the development of gender dynamics instead of apposing them with dismissal and silencing strategies. Its not only women who are moving into the future, men are too and its not just all about women.
That is probably one of the most succinct responses I have ever read on this topic. Right on!
Johanus Haidner: I was not asking you, I was asking the author of this article. Please do not respond to posts that are not directed at you personally. Also did you read my comment before ‘answering’ it? (even though the question was not directed at you and you did not address the question at all) I thought I explained it clearly already. Feminism is about equality in RELATION to men. with men being the advantaged group. It may have benefits to men, but that is not the main focal point, women are. Why else would it be called feminism? As I said before no equal rights group has to campaign for issues outside that group. ESPECIALLY the advantaged group. Never ever. Full stop. What part of that is so hard to understand? Feminism is the only equal rights movement in history that is expected to benefit the advantaged group as much as the disadvantaged group for it be be considered fair. Also,no equal rights movement gets accused of giving these groups “more privileges” than the advantaged group. We don’t call anti-racist groups racist, we don’t call LGBT groups hetro-phobic, so we don’t call feminism sexist. Feminism also does benefit men, but it does not have to benefit men at all for it to be worth while, this is because the lives of women have value in their own right. Men may be the advantaged group, but men still have these problems. However, it is up to men to get off their butts do do something about it themselves. Feminism can not be expected to solve male issues, because men and women face different issues and not all of men’s issues can be solved by women.. Here are some articles on the subject.
http://www.thefword.org.uk/features/2003/09/feminists_are_sexist
http://birthanarchy.com/stop-with-your-sexist-temper-tantrum-feminism-isnt-the-problem/
http://birthanarchy.com/stop-with-your-sexist-temper-tantrum-feminism-isnt-the-problem/
As for “it doesn’t actually promote equal rights, rather it promotes the concept of women having more privileges than children and men. So where are the equal rights in that?” the male rights movement is exclusively focused on male rights, it does nothing for women, so can’t be argued that it promotes the concept of men having more privileges than women and children? Perhaps you should look in the mirror before making such ridiculous comments.
Wow, here is a woman complaining about men who try to resolve their own issues in the way that men solve them. She is all up in arms and bitching because men are not doing things the way women would. What a joke. This country was just fine for 100 plus years, almost 200 years, lifting all boats before the progressives and feminists started destroying what has worked in societies before us. Just like Rome and Greece, it was the progressives and feminist in power that began the ending of societies and here we are at ours and the progressives and feminists are looking around and proud at what they have destroyed. You should be ashamed. Without strong, free, masculine men, you would still be living in the stone age but, you are too stupid with feminine pride to admit it. The genders do have a role – operating at their gender strength, naturally. It is people like you who keep disrupting the natural order, causing women to expect to have it all and sacrifice nothing. It does not work that way, it never has, it never will.
I love this. I love that you are working with your anger and not trying to suppress it or apologize for it. I love that you’re telling it like it is. Thank you times a million, sister. #fuckyeah
Hollywood Hypocrisy and Gender Pay Gap Fiction
I forgot to mention that in adult entertainment women are paid much more than men. So are porn actresses better negotiators than porn actors or regular actresses? Or are porn actors just endowed with the worst negotiation skills of all (some kind of natural endowment trade-off)? Should the government force porn producers to pay men more or women less to equalize pay? In reality this disparity has nothing to do with discrimination against men, it’s just how the market works. The porn audience cares about the female stars. The men are more like props. So it’s the women who sell the films. Plus there is a greater supply of men willing to appear in these films than women. So pay rates reflects marker forces, not discrimination. It’s the same way in regular films, just reversed. I wonder if at the next Adult Video News awards a male winner will demand equal pay during his acceptance speech?
The same situation applies in the fashion industry. Female models earn more money than male models, though most will have shorter careers due to the youth factor.
The feminist movement is a wonderful movement because change is needed. But we must not forget one very important thing. It should not create a Red Rover type of game where it is always the women against the men. We want to be considered valuable as humans, so as women we must stay connected to the men who we want to accept us. In supporting feminism we should not be encouraging women to believe that they are better than men. That is the only way we can actually become equals.
I am a MRA, but I believe both feminism and MRA are important. I believe they share many common grounds and both misunderstand each other very badly. Both MRAs and Feminism is for gender equality and human rights. None of us want to see women back in the kitchen or see men back in war. But both have different views of how we are going about it. Which is healthy, debate is needed and different points of view help with open mindedness. While MRAs are more focused on the male side of things, so is feminism more focused on the women’s side of things and both need to co-exsist to get a good balance for the future. But the way these two groups have a misunderstanding of each other is way beyond me. Both are very misinformed about each other. Only looking for the bad in each other to smear each other with, Why? none of us needs that while trying to make things better.
Men and women look at the world in different ways, it will always be like that, we cannot put ourselves in each others shoes no matter how hard we try. Feminism see the world more from a woman’s perspective, MRAs more from a mens perspective. But both perspectives are important. It is a fact, both want equal rights for all. Therefore both need to exist, but both need to seek to understand each others perspectives rather than seek to misunderstand each others perspectives.
This article is about misunderstanding MRAs and not understanding them. Many of the stuff of Voice for Men is about misunderstanding feminism and not understanding them. As a MRA i know feminism have tried to do much for men and had good intent and still have. But I dont think feminism is fully equip to deal with mens issues fully, Im glad they try, but there are many misunderstandings about it. MRAs are still to small to really get much done. few sites, one conference and no official funding vs feminism a billion dollar movement. But my goal would be to see if MRAs and Feminists can respect each others movements as it has so many common grounds and deal with the differences more constructively. Both MRAs and Feminism should have their voices heard and be free to speak, need their freedom respected and none of them are obligated to agree with the other. its a free world but we need to learn to respect it. This is a opinion I am driving in the MRA community as well. I believe it is important. we should not be at war, we should be at work.
In Part I agree with you, and In part I want to use your picture of the two fists against you.
A huge problem is brewing in the GBV field, and in my humble opinion, as an activist we need to begin separating woman’s rights and GBV. Sound weird?
Let me explain. We can no longer state that rape and sexual abuse is perpetrated by men….on woman and children. Research is starting to reveal that a huge proportion of sexual abuse perpetrated on children is done by women, not as many as their male counterparts, but the figures are mounting at an alarming rate. Since the advent of sites on face book, blogs and other areas that people can establish free online support groups, people are talking out and starting to tell about horrific violence perpetrated on them by women. Because this sort of thing is not spoken about, then of course it doesnt exist.
The feminist movement in the seventies “Hijacked” the GBV sector and made it their own, and perpetuated the myth that men are not raped, boys are not raped and that Men are the evil perpetrators.
My stand on this point has received hate mail, yes, but then again no cause worth fighting has not ruffed up emotional responses in the past. It takes extreme thinkers to effect change in the world.
I do not deny that we need to change the power dynamic in society, that equal rights for woman are important, that we need to change the patriarchal society, I agree 100%, these things need to in fact MUST change, we have no right to judge ability based on gender, race or any other barrier that we as men invent.
But, we will never change the horrific violence perpetrated on Boys and Girls in this world if we keep only telling one side of the story, and as long as the feminists hold the GBV sector hostage, the truth will never emerge.
Separate woman’s rights and GBV so that we can actually start getting a clearer picture of the extent of the problem, and let the feminists continue fighting the fight that they are busy with and not jeopardize the safety of the children world wide.
If we take Pakistan as an example. A lot is said about the despicable treatment of girls in that country, and yes many other Sharia law countries, but nothing is said about the Millions of boys that are raped by men and woman in that country. Where do those little boys go for help? they cant, because they are made to feel like perpetrators and not victims, and similar things are happening in Saudi, Syria, South Africa, most African countries.
Lets not hijack a sector that affects millions of victims for the sake of the Feminist struggle.
“In Part I agree with you, and In part I want to use your picture of the two fists against you.”
I for one didn’t find the image particularly triggering of much of anything but a sense of wanting to put my fist together with hers. It seemed to be a way of signifying solidarity. perhaps you don’t understand such gestures. I don’t know. maybe it’s just me picking up on them in spite of supposedly being autistic. I’m reading your reply however and have noticed a number of objections.
“A huge problem is brewing in the GBV field, and in my humble opinion, as an activist we need to begin separating woman’s rights and GBV. Sound weird?
Let me explain. We can no longer state that rape and sexual abuse is perpetrated by men….on woman and children. ” Oh I’m certainly more interested in the research in this area but I consider it something the research is still pouring in on.
“The feminist movement in the seventies “Hijacked” the GBV sector and made it their own, and perpetuated the myth that men are not raped, boys are not raped and that Men are the evil perpetrators.”
This is destructive and not even particularly helpful as I’ve pointed out on numerous occasions to feminism and the nature of that debate within feminism really ought to change in of itself. Why? Well when it comes to GBV if we don’t teach over and over again that arousal isn’t consent it hurts women. Why?
http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2013-05/science-arousal-during-rape
Because some women experience orgasm when they are raped. it’s a minority of cases that deserves further research but to my mind it seems that if a woman can climax when raped then it makes complete sense that Feminism is wrong about men “Not being able to be raped” and as far as I know I’ve met several women who have gotten in trouble for having pointed this out that should never have been. It’s not actually as funny as it sounds on the face of it. Almost anything, any stimulus can rather involuntary arouse some, scrolling around my dash on tumblr sometimes as a tumblr feminist, the dreaded scourge of the Internets I can often be subjected quiet often to pornographic images, even women who are comfortable with it. None of this is anything I ” have a problem” with
What I take umbrage with and issue with is what appears to me in their mind to be that it’s “obvious” a guy “cannot ” be raped by a woman because “Duh. His penis would have to be erect.” I’m well aware of that fact, but the problem is that it’s not particularly hard to arouse a male even if he doesn’t necessarily want to be aroused, it’s inconvenient, any matter of things. This isn’t Pro-feminist at all. the snark, the joke, the not taking it seriously, the reality is that if we don’t take men seriously because they “Had to have an erection” for a Woman to have sex with them and that’s “obvious” then any Rapist could run around willy nilly on the men’s side and tell the woman he raped that she was Turned on and experiencing responses indicating arousal and therefore “She must want it.”
This is anti-feminist. It’s not helpful even to feminism so if one thing does change, I hope it’s this.
A male could very easily be aroused wither he wants to be or not, wither he were trying to shut it all out, it’s not that hard to see it happen without him consenting to actually having sex with her.
That feminist cannot even imagine a man with a hardon saying “no” to sex is another thing.
but just some pointers, something you can say to feminist who are narrow minded about this. After all, it was never supposed to be a monolithic movement.
So my point is you’re right, Any feminist worth her weight in salt should be teaching that men are just as capable of being raped by both men and. Women, as women are by.. both men and women.
Kryiarchy, not purely patriarchal.
In Part I agree with you, and In part I want to use your picture of the two fists against you.
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What? No. It just seems like a Solidarity Fist.
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A huge problem is brewing in the GBV field, and in my humble opinion, as an activist we need to begin separating woman’s rights and GBV. Sound weird?
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Nope. I know where this is going…. I agree with you…
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Let me explain. We can no longer state that rape and sexual abuse is perpetrated by men….on woman and children. Research is starting to reveal that a huge proportion of sexual abuse perpetrated on children is done by women, not as many as their male counterparts, but the figures are mounting at an alarming rate. Since the advent of sites on face book, blogs and other areas that people can establish free online support groups, people are talking out and starting to tell about horrific violence perpetrated on them by women. Because this sort of thing is not spoken about, then of course it doesnt exist.
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Oh it does. Trust me, there’s another phenemoeon which is not often discussed openly in “polite society” that correlates to the problem here: http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2013-05/science-arousal-during-rape
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The feminist movement in the seventies “Hijacked” the GBV sector and made it their own, and perpetuated the myth that men are not raped, boys are not raped and that Men are the evil perpetrators.
My stand on this point has received hate mail, yes, but then again no cause worth fighting has not ruffed up emotional responses in the past. It takes extreme thinkers to effect change in the world.
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This may shock you but I am male and pro-feminist, but I am writing the response so… I’m sorry you received undesereed hate mal for this but I take issue with what the OTHER feminist have taught about Rape myself because to them and I can very easy see myself in a class room somewhere suggesting men can be raped by women only for a woman to laugh, and say “oh Dae, that’s nonsense. Don’t you realize a man has to have an erection in order to penetrate a woman.” and implying that I am ignorant of anatomy to such a great extent that I am not aware it’s very difficult for a woman to get much of anything from an unerect penis entering her to the extent that it even could. I believe we need to state within GBv course’s that Arousal is not Consent. Why? Well because it has the potential to impact both sexes so it’s relevant to both.
Women who believe Arousal is consent may find themselves some day in a situation in which they are raped by men and and discover. To their horror, that they climaxed.
http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2013-05/science-arousal-during-rape
to a man whom tells her that “see! I turned you on! You must have wanted it.” and they may . actually believe it. Because after all, men cannot be raped because arousal is consent …in some people’s minds. A man could never possibly be turned on and yet turn her down. The stereotype is destructive to both sexes. So…no disagrement here. I realize we’re both talking about some pretty heavy stuff. No woman should be taught that Arousal is consent for her own good but she should also be taught it goes both ways, you turn a dood on and Being in the mood to be turned on is not the same thing as being turned on. there have been plenty of experiences in my own life where arousal was inconvenient. Men are not “consenting” to have sex with you just because they have an erect penis anymore than you’re consenting to have sex with him just because you’re wet or aroused yourself as awoman, only the conscious decision that this is really truly ok with you counts.
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I do not deny that we need to change the power dynamic in society, that equal rights for woman are important, that we need to change the patriarchal society, I agree 100%, these things need to in fact MUST change, we have no right to judge ability based on gender, race or any other barrier that we as men invent.
But, we will never change the horrific violence perpetrated on Boys and Girls in this world if we keep only telling one side of the story, and as long as the feminists hold the GBV sector hostage, the truth will never emerge.
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If I have my way I will convince feminist themselves to correct this particularly horrible miscalculation
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Separate woman’s rights and GBV so that we can actually start getting a clearer picture of the extent of the problem, and let the feminists continue fighting the fight that they are busy with and not jeopardize the safety of the children world wide.
If we take Pakistan as an example. A lot is said about the despicable treatment of girls in that country, and yes many other Sharia law countries, but nothing is said about the Millions of boys that are raped by men and woman in that country. Where do those little boys go for help? they cant, because they are made to feel like perpetrators and not victims, and similar things are happening in Saudi, Syria, South Africa, most African countries.
Lets not hijack a sector that affects millions of victims for the sake of the Feminist struggle.
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I don’t know what else to say, the research is still coming in.
Researchers’ consensus is that 95/6% of (offending) paedophiles and 99>% of rapists are male, based on the body of crime statistics, medical evidence and academic research which applies to the US and Europe. If MRAs want to challenge this overall picture then they will require evidence, and a lot of it. You have no credibility when you fall back on vague claims that millions of little boys and men are being raped by women.
I can’t find the button to comment independently so I will comment by replying to your comment. The author makes a good point in saying that the men activists are not seeking standard community-help solutions to their issues.
But she is wrong to say “let’s get one thing straight: men, as a group, do not face systematic oppression because of their gender.”
That is not true. When an institution installs a “diversity program’ or ‘affirmative action program’, that is exactly what while men face – systematic oppression. That is because when the white male equals or even betters the merit scores of females or minorities, they automatically lose because the system is designed to add points to the hiring, promotion or college entrance score to the favored group.
White men get angry about this lack of fairness. As I am sure women would be angry when told “Yes, you were the better qualified applicant but we hired a man instead of you because we wanted a man, not a woman”.
So the men’s right solution does not require a community action program or fund raising. The solution is simple. Advance people based solely on merit. When that does not happen, we complain.
“they attend feminist events in order to bully and intimidate women, they flood online feminist spaces with threatening messages, and they regularly use smear campaigns and scare tactics to make the women who don’t back down afraid for their physical safety.” – how is this anything different than what “feminists” have been doing for oh, 50 years? Life is fair, people are unfair, learn to live with that – but “turnabout is fair play” Try to fill the internet up with something that is actually useful and productive, hmm lovey? K, thanks
Seriously fucking brilliant!!!!! Thank you!
Genuinely no matter if someone doesn’t know then its up to other users that they will assist, so here
it occurs.
So, basically, as a white cishet male living in the United States, I need to shut up and preferably kill myself so that everyone else can have a wonderful utopian matriarchal society. I had no idea it was that simple. Thank you so much for clearing up exactly why I should consider myself and everyone like me as utter fucking scum unworthy to breathe the same air as empowered feminist womyn.
LOL! Now he sees it for what it really is. Ya, I feel the same way. Logic and reason are not allowed here, don’t you know?
FEMINIST IS GARBADE,THAT’S THE FACTS. thank you author, the way to make this auwful article, the more women and men hate feminist.
This news report showed, feminist has failed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXeszLlTX5E
When cats wants to be dogs, all you get is a group of second rate dogs and the real dogs that sometimes tolerate them!
“MRAs believe that feminists are to blame for basically everything that’s wrong with their lives. The Men’s Rights Movement is a reactionary movement created specifically to counter feminism, and most (if not all) of their time and resources go towards silencing and marginalizing women. They do things like starting the Don’t Be That Girl campaign, a campaign that accuses women of making false rape reports. They attend feminist events in order to bully and intimidate women, they flood online feminist spaces with threatening messages, and they regularly use smear campaigns and scare tactics to make the women who don’t back down afraid for their physical safety. They do literally nothing to actually resolve the problems that they claim to care about, and instead do everything they can to discredit the feminist movement.”
Basically, a male version of what feminism actually is. They lied to me to make me see the truth of their oppression, just as feminists has.
That they generally suck as individuals is true, but same thing apply to what they are against, it is the B is B doesn´t mean that A isn´t A fallacy.
Yep, that White “cis” aren´t encouraged to be proud of themselves, even shamed is simply the truth, how things actually are today in the west, so get on with the time.
I freely aknowledge that it is a first-world problem, it sure isn’t them who are oppressing the great majority of women in the world. Go tell king Abdullah to check his privilege.
no… loser women are guilt tripping you for cunt-troll… men, ya either lead your women, or they ruin the world… LQQK AROUND… fuck a cunts “feelings” they really do not have any but jealousy, envy, anger and retarded child rage… have to train, discipline, educate, support, reward… ya know… LIKE THE FUCKING BITCHES IN HEAT THEY ARE. ” )
if ya can’t handle that then I guess Obama is correct with his statement of a nation full of women.
PS: women do not want you to know the truth men, which is why they pretty much run media in America… for their lazy incessant drivel of udder bullshit and lives of cuntsumer lives while they all compete against each other for The Face Cream of Life… gestators, ya gotta know which ones to AVOID YA MORONS. Just because they’re a female in no way automatically means they’re worth your time or efforts, women with the Great Whore mentality = no respect JUST EXPECT. ” )
And… here come the backlashes toward women, but it’s okay to tell the author of this post that in some ways you felt like using her ‘fists’ against her. Very convincing argument there. Implying violence against women really helps your case. You boys better tuck your shirts in … Your hatred is showing … Tsk tsk… And it ain’t helping to convince me that I should feel sorry for lil’ old you.
I appreciate the fact that you require an email and a name in order to comment. Very refreshing in this age of anonymous and cowardly eye-poking on the Internet.
I don’t know what you mean with your last comment, that straight white men are encouraged to feel proud.
I don’t know what it’s like to be a woman and I don’t pretend to.
I know that you don’t know what it’s like to be a man. I’ve never met you, will never meet you, which is really the only reason I’m responding to your words.
There are different classes of men. Some are rich and run all the shit, some of those same men
I like how the dude bros came in here with base insults, others without citations about female on male rape made non-existent by feminists when it’s more likely a symptom of the patriarchal requirement for masculinity in men, of which being raped is in complete contradiction. The feminists win every time with their ability to be at least articulate instead of spewing “cunt” every second sentence. I want to believe that MRA is a legitimate movement, but it is very difficult given its followers can barely get their point across without resorting to name-calling and threats of violence.
It’s very simple guys, if you want to fix the issues that men face, FIX THEM. Start something! Don’t sit around in your echo chambers crying about women. It doesn’t fix anything.
Seen at least a dozen videos on youtube where mra’s show up to feminist rallies with nothing more than a billboard and pamphlets, and really just stand there while they literally get physically assaulted by feminists and their crowds. Calling BS on everything you’re about in this post. Not hating, just stating the truth. Show me one video where women show up to mra speeches and receive that type of treatment.
Reblogged this on MISTY WATERS and commented:
Why we have more reason to get rid of patriarchy!
Our patriarchal culture and its strictly enforced gender roles which, hey, happens to be exactly the same power structure that feminism is trying to take down. The patriarchy has some fucked up ideas about masculinity, ideas that make men less likely to seek help for issues that they perceive to be too feminine – such as being hurt or raped by a female partner, not being able to provide for themselves, or not seeking help for health issues like depression and anxiety. On a societal level, it means that resources are not as readily available for men who face these challenges, because patriarchal ideas tell our courts, our governments and our charitable organizations that men don’t ever need that kind of help. Yes, the patriarchy overwhelmingly privileges the interests of men, but it also hurts men.
Gynocracy is the same as patriarchy. The both enforce tight gender role expectations, using a system of cult like thought reinforcement. They are both prisons. We are of course living under gynocracy not patriarchy.
” Misandry is not actually a thing, ”
Misandry is just hte hatred of men, so yes it is a real thing as many people espouse it.
“But men do not face oppression because they are men. ”
Certainly, but either do women if we keep it in the west
You claim it’s about the patriarchy, as if feminism has ever lifted a finger for mens issues! And in the same breath you deny men the right to speak to their issues at all – ridiculing them, and justifying an unequal treatment of, all under the guise of ‘equality’. “Your not oppressed” translates to ‘get to the back of the line’. Well guess what, the very fact that you want to spend effort, silencing the voices of men, taking away our power to say anything about our issues, is evidence of our oppression. Nobody in power, is effectively muted. Not having a voice, is one of the central hallmarks of oppression. As is, being regarded as subhuman (men are rapists, men are murderers, men can’t be trust, men are bad fathers, men can’t be proud, women can be proud, women are always perfect, women can be perpetrators, women can’t be criminals, women are always victims), which is very close to racism, in the way it manifests. This article is evidence of oppression, the feminist dialogue with its hateful and oppressive ideas, weren’t running societies dialogue – if you didn’t have the mic, so to speak, you could claim oppression. And if men, had that mic, you could claim, they weren’t oppressed. But when it comes to issues, and benefits and disadvantages for each of those groups – one gets a say. Forever. No matter how much advantage women get, eternally the victim, and the oppressor in a mask.
So funny that you act as if feminism ever does anything for men. Yes, men we will be your champions (you know, never, but we will say we do, so you never get anything).
I hope you realize, it doesn’t matter a jot, what you say. Men are going on a man strike. Even if they have no awareness of mens rights. They are still, instinctively steeping out of there end of the social contract, that women stepped out of decades ago. And they you know, do the military, act as husbands, boyfriends, do science, do hard labour, pay most of the taxes. It’s only going to take a few of us missing, from doing what the entitled have come to expect, to really rock society. It matters not at all what is said on the podium, such as here. Or who controls education, or the media, or public policy. Men going on strike, will change society for the better, and produce a new social contract. Ain’t nothing you can do about it.
B’bye
Non-sheltered Homeless (2009)
Women – 12,000 – 4%
Men – 240,000 – 96%
Life Expectancy (2006)
Women – 80.8 Years
Men – 75.7 Years
Suicides (2008)
Women – 7,585 – 19%
Men – 28,450 – 81%
Deaths by Homicide (2004)
Women – 3,856 – 20%
Men – 14,717 – 80%
Deaths from Cancer (2004)
Women – 269,819
Men – 290,069
Deaths from HIV/AIDS (2004)
Women – 3,357
Men – 8,756
Federal Funds for Sex Specific Cancer Research
Women – Breast Cancer – $631,000,000 – 40,000 Deaths
Men – Prostate Cancer – $300,000,000 – 33,000 Deaths
Deaths on the Job (2010)
Women – 355 – 7%
Men – 4,192 – 93%
Injuries on the Job (2007)
Women – 36%
Men – 64%
College Enrollment (2009)
Women – 58% – 11,658,000
Men – 42% – 8,770,000
Affirmative Action Education Programs (Gender Specific)
Women – Yes
Men – No
Unemployment Rates (2010)
Women – 8.6% – 6,199,000
Men – 10.5% – 8,626,000
Average Hours Worked Per Week (2010)
Women – 36.1
Men – 40.2
High School Graduation Rates (2005)
Women – 72%
Men – 65%
Incarceration Rates (2009)
Women – 114,979 – 7%
Men – 1,502,49 – 93%
Child Custody Rates
Women – 11,268,000 custodial mothers
Men – 2,907,000 custodial fathers
US Military Deaths From 1950 – 2010
Women – 139 – 0.001%
Men – 100,063 – 99.99%
Federally Funded Battered Shelters
Women – 2,000+ $300,000,000 per year
Men – None – $0
Federally Funded Health Offices and Research
1970 – Present (not including cancer research)
Women Only – Office, Projects and Programs 70+ –
Funds – $100,000,000,000
Men Only – None – $0
Forced Selective Service
Women – No
Men – Yes
Drug and Alcohol Addiction and Abuse Rates
(2010)
Women – 5.8%
Men – 12.2%
Loss of priviledge is always a sacrifice. Of course women will have to surrender rights for men to have systemic equality, especially as compared to supremacy. Equality nessasarily involved the rights of the advantaged group, as you should well know, so yes equality will require a loss of female rights. So yes, for equality, the excess rights women have would need to be surrendered. But those changes will only happen if women have empathy for men. If men have empathy for men. which societally remains to be seen. I wonder what the effect ‘the red pill’ will have?