Rape Culture at the University of Ottawa

28 Feb

On February 10th, Anne Marie Roy, president of the Student Federation of the University of Ottawa, was sent screenshots of a chat that had taken place earlier in the month between two student federation board members and several other students who are either elected to or participate in various faculty associations. The chat had taken place during the student federation elections, and all five men involved were members of a campaign opposing Roy’s (Roy has been president of the student federation since May 2013, and was re-elected this month). The conversation was about Roy, and the portion she was given contained graphic sexual descriptions about what the men wanted to do to her, including a rape joke that could, potentially, be taken as a rape threat.

Below are the screenshots. The participants are as follows:

Bart Tremblay: a non-elected student involved with the association for the Arts faculty

Alexandre Giroux: On the board of directors of the Student Federation of the University of Ottawa, and VP Social for the Science Student Association

Alex Larochelle: VP Social for the Criminology Student Association

Pat Marquis: VP Social of the Student Federation of the University of Ottawa

Michel Fournier-Simard: VP Social for the Political Science and International developement Association

Screen Shot 2014-02-28 at 1.56.05 PM

Bart Tremblay: Let me tell you something right now: the “tri-fluvienne” [nickname for someone from Trois-Rivières, Québec] president will suck me off in her office chair and after I will fuck her in the ass on Pat [Marquis]’s desk

Alexandre Giroux: Tri-fluvienne? Who’s that?

Alex Larochelle: PJ I believe?

Bart Tremblay: Anne-Marie Roy, you dipshits, she comes from Trois-Rivières

Screen Shot 2014-02-28 at 1.56.45 PM

Alexandre Giroux: What? No. What a shit-eater. She says that she comes from somewhere in Ontario.

Alex Larochelle: Fuck yeah Anne Marie Roy

Bart Tremblay: She told me Trois-Rivières

Alexandre Giroux: Haha shiiit

Alex Larochelle: Someone punish her with their shaft

Alexandre Giroux: Well Christ, if you fuck Anne Marie I will definitely buy you a beer

Screen Shot 2014-02-28 at 1.57.07 PM

Alex Larochelle: Hahah, I’d buy you a beer too

Bart Tremblay: Lol

Alexandre Giroux: BAHAHA

Pat Marquis: I’ll get a 24 for Bart if he does it

Bart Tremblay: [Thumbs up symbol]

Bart Tremblay: Yeeee

Screen Shot 2014-02-28 at 1.57.41 PM

Michel Fournier-Simard: Dude she has chlamydia. And she told francophone students that she was from Trois-Rivières but she moved to Southern Ontario when she was five years old. It’s a super political strategy.

Alex Larochelle: Hahaha I heard she has syphilis

Alexandre Giroux: Well look hahhahahah

Alex Larochelle: But those get treated bro lol. Someone told Pat and I when we were in Boston. It’s such bull shit hahaha.

Someone punish her with their shaft. Someone punish her with their shaft. This is the type of thing that’s said about women in positions of power – not a critique of their policies, but a threat of sexual violence. Not a comment on how they do their job, but graphic fantasies about how they should be sexually degraded. Nothing about their intelligence or capability, just a string of jokes about how riddled with venereal disease they are. This is misogyny, pure and simple. This is slut-shaming. This is rape culture.

Can you imagine anything like this ever being said about a male leader? Try to picture, for a moment, a female candidate saying that her opponent is going to eat her out, or that she’s going to “punish” him with her vagina. Sounds pretty unlikely, doesn’t it? And yet, this is the kind of thing that women are subjected to all the time; the truth is that no matter how far we might think we’ve come, no matter how many female CEOs there might be, the belief that women are little more than a collection of fuck-holes persists. Oh sure, people might pay lip-service to the fact that women are equal to men in intelligence, talent, and capability, but at the end of the day we can’t escape the fact that a woman is still viewed as being less than a person. Because that conversation right there? That is not how you talk about a person.

What’s even worse is that events like these are nearly always downplayed. It’s just a joke, people say. They would never have said that if they’d thought you would hear it. In fact, three of the five men involved in the conversation are considering legal action against Roy on the grounds that it was a private conversation that should not have been made public. That’s right. They want to pursue legal action against her because she publicly called them out for making rape jokes about her. This is the fucked up culture we live in.

To make things even worse, these men are all in a position of leadership at the University of Ottawa. These are the people that the students look up to, that they use as a sort of moral compass to navigate university life. If these men face no consequences for their actions – indeed, if they are able to press charges against Roy for publicly addressing their comments – what are the students going to learn from this? They’ll learn that rape is a joke, that women can be terrorized into silence, and that it’s useless, maybe even dangerous, to speak up. Are these the lessons that we want our student leaders to be instilling in the heads of seventeen and eighteen year old kids?

Since this incident was first brought to light, Pat Marquis, the VP Social for the Student Federation of the University of Ottawa, has been in discussions with Roy about the accountability measures he can take for his role in this conversation. It is their hope that these measures can be a public conversation between Roy and Marquis, and could serve as a learning opportunity for the student body. Alex Larochelle has also contacted Roy and tentatively mentioned participating in this conversation as well. As for Bart Tremblay, Alexandre Giroux and Michel Fournier-Simard, they are continuing to attempt to pursue legal action against Roy.

I reached Roy this afternoon for a statement, and she had this to say:

“It’s definitely concerning because these are individuals who are responsible for putting on social events, many of which involve alcohol, and they are also responsible for the safety of membership at these events. On a personal level I feel that this is very misogynistic, I feel that this is a reaction that these men are having because I’m a woman in a position of leadership. My concerns on this are twofold: first, the issue of student safety in general, and second, that women are not going to feel safe running for positions of leadership on campus.”

I think she pretty much hits the nail on the head with that assessment.

ETA: comments are now closed on this post

277 Responses to “Rape Culture at the University of Ottawa”

  1. DysthymiaBree February 28, 2014 at 9:51 pm #

    This story just shocked me to the core. I feel so much sisterhood, so much pride, in the way Roy is responding to this situation.
    It brought to mind a speech made by Julia Gillard, Australia’s first female prime minister, in Parliament in 2012. I was driving and listening to Parliament live on the radio when she rose to address the misogynistic leader of the opposition. When she spoke the part which starts with “I will not be lectured about sexism and misogyny by this man …” the hairs on my arms stood up. The amount of crap that wonderful woman faced, simply because she was female! Well, I’m sure you can imagine. Anyway, I found a YouTube clip of her speech, and thought it may interest you:

    • René Légère March 1, 2014 at 8:34 pm #

      Une intervention impressionnante de la première ministre de l’Australie pour dénoncer l’attitude misogyne du chef de l’opposition de son pays. Voilà pourquoi nous avons besoin de plus en plus besoin de femme au sein de nos institutions parlementaires.

      • DysthymiaBree March 1, 2014 at 11:29 pm #

        I am so sorry, I don’t speak or read French, so I can’t understand what you said.

      • sparkkeh March 2, 2014 at 12:05 am #

        Dysthymia – I love google translate 🙂 “She said An impressive response to Prime Minister of Australia to denounce the misogynist attitude of the leader of the opposition in his country. That is why we need more women in need of our parliamentary institutions.”

        if you ever need something translated – while it’s nowhere near perfect you can generally get an idea of what’s said here. http://translate.google.com/

    • memorableblogtitle March 1, 2014 at 11:08 pm #

      I like how she kept her voice at the same volume and speed and just ignored and kept talking over the people trying to interrupt her. That’s hard to do, but it’s an effective way to show who’s in charge.

      At least some of the voices seemed to be in agreement with her.

      • DysthymiaBree March 1, 2014 at 11:28 pm #

        Her own party were in agreement with her, and many of the opposition were shamed into silence. Wasn’t she wonderful? I think so!

      • Little Miss Obvious March 2, 2014 at 7:04 am #

        It was a great performance indeed.

        So you trust politicians at their word?

    • Little Miss Obvious March 2, 2014 at 6:59 am #

      I love this.

      ‘Rape culture’ in Ottawa is part of Australian ‘rape culture’.

      They are, literally, on opposite ends of the Earth. Great logic.

      And of course, women are disenfranchised. Especially the leaders of state and Prime Ministers. Her job is hard because she’s a woman, boohoo. People are attacking her…boohoo.

      That’s why women can confront men in a parliamentary system and their views can be heard and applauded. Because of misogyny and sexism. jesus, open your eyes.

      We are so marginalized, no freedom whatsoever…

      Feminists cry sexism when men hire women and they cry sexism when they don’t hire women. They cry sexism when they’re Prime Ministers.

      If you listen closely to her arguments, from a political standpoint they’re genius. From a gender equality standpoint, what she’s accusing him of is pretty tame…she’s animated and brings ti to life and evokes empathy even sympathy…but it’s all words. He said this, he said that…of course he’s attacking you. It’s politics, it’s his job.

      Yeah, he’s a politicians. He talks shit. That’s the game.

      By the end he looks like a broken man. And what was his crime? Words. Harsher words to trump his harsh words. Paint him as a sexist and kill his career. Applaud your progress feminists. Destroying men.

      Seriously.

      OP got her article hijacked by another feminist looking for attention.

      • DysthymiaBree March 2, 2014 at 7:12 am #

        I’m sorry you don’t share my admiration for Australia’s first female prime minister. I thought she was a wonderful voice for women.
        Obviously, my contribution was somewhat tangential to the original story, but I wanted to share a speech I thought was pretty special with an audience who may not have heard it.
        I apologize if you thought that I was seeking attention for myself (I was not) or in any way diminishing rape culture (as a survivor myself, I would never diminish outrage against rape).

      • DysthymiaBree March 2, 2014 at 7:12 am #

        Also – that man is now the current prime minister. His career was not destroyed. I could post another mix which shows his aggressive body language throughout Gillard’s speech, but as it would not be welcome, I will refrain.

  2. DysthymiaBree February 28, 2014 at 10:02 pm #

    The first seven minutes of the above video are most pertinent from a feminist viewpoint – after that, Gillard continues to address issues of sexism, but with many references to affairs before the parliament and the nation at that time

    • Gilraen March 1, 2014 at 10:57 am #

      Ah one of my favourite clips from a JG standing up to the opposition leader. If I am not mistaken he sadly is now PM himself after a campaign containing this http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/04/tony-abbott-daughters-big-brother

      • DysthymiaBree March 1, 2014 at 8:55 pm #

        Yes, to our great shame he is our PM. He is undoing all the good work Gillard did, and is an absolute embarrassment on the international front 😦
        My sister has a friend who was a Gillard advisor – you know, the people who see the person behind the soundbites – and he says she was an absolute professional, especially compared to the previous leader of her party, whom she replaced in a cabinet coup. The amount of crap she copped, just for being female! Well, you heard it in the clip.
        In a previous job, I met Abbott’s deputy, Christopher Pyne (shudder) and also the current foreign affairs minister, Julie Bishop. Both are as disappointing in real life as under the public gaze.
        It’s a sad time to be an Australian.

  3. DysthymiaBree February 28, 2014 at 10:05 pm #

    … but you might also enjoy the last minute or so – from the 14:00 mark!

    • Foghorn The IKonoclast February 28, 2014 at 10:31 pm #

      That was very good and I think even some men saw her words as absolutely right.

      • DysthymiaBree February 28, 2014 at 11:06 pm #

        There’s another edit which shows the leader of the opposition (the sexist man she was referring to) and his facial aggression throughout her speech – priceless. His body is still (until he looks at his watch) but he couldn’t control the anger of his face.

      • Lighthouse the Proklaimer March 1, 2014 at 2:48 pm #

        Hey Foghorn The IKonoclast

        The problem with this discussion is that you’re purposely alienating and lumping all men together as if we’re all misogynists. What do you mean “even some men” agreed with her? Of course they did. Misogyny is absolutely wrong, and the example in this article is appalling and disgusting.

  4. kellymcmullen1 February 28, 2014 at 10:17 pm #

    Reblogged this on Wild Women Wisdom.

    • Little Miss Obvious March 2, 2014 at 6:45 am #

      I doubt there is any wisdom on your blog.

      You are shamelessly promoting ‘blogger culture’ and it leads to disinformation and disenfranchises women.

      More women are at risk of rape when they uniformed/disinformed about it.

  5. Foghorn The IKonoclast February 28, 2014 at 10:30 pm #

    Wow she kicks ass and did you see the looks of the men and the cat calls, Thank you for this video and I will bookmark her words. These are reasonable comments by her but very direct and not afraid of the stupidity by misogyny.

  6. Foghorn The IKonoclast February 28, 2014 at 10:43 pm #

    Reblogged this on Floyd, Times Are Changin and commented:
    I know I have taken exception with this blog but she is spot on here and I really appreciate her flourish.

    • Little Miss Obvious March 2, 2014 at 6:33 am #

      Stop propagating ‘blogger culture’.

      If you had anything interesting to say, someone who pay you to say it.

      • Foghorn The IKonoclast March 2, 2014 at 9:31 am #

        LOL> I do get paid for what I say.

      • Jaguara March 2, 2014 at 6:54 pm #

        We all know that people who are paid to say things have more credibility than people who are not…right? Being paid to say something just means that you say things that the payor likes.

      • Foghorn The IKonoclast March 3, 2014 at 1:19 am #

        Nice grammar also. ha!

  7. Brenda February 28, 2014 at 11:18 pm #

    Shocking story, and I hope she sues them.

    • Whoever March 1, 2014 at 3:23 pm #

      On what basis!? I hope they sue her and win! They had a private conversation among themselves, yes stating sexual desires, but with no prejudicial intent. They have no plans to act upon it, they dont plan a rape like its made out to be… Its not even sexual assault! She`s playing victim, like too many women do. Shes taking these guys`reputations and dragging them in the dirt, which should be (and hopefully will) punished by law. Crying out rape/sexual assault is as bad as raping/sexual assault.

      • Jeff March 1, 2014 at 4:50 pm #

        It wasn’t a private conversation. It was on facebook! Hundreds of either of their “friends” on facebook could see the conversation. Can’t wait for the defamation lawsuit.

      • Lyndsey March 1, 2014 at 5:08 pm #

        There are so many flawed arguments in what you just said, unfortunately i dont have the time to point them all out so here are the highlights.

        Clearly having a conversation on Facebook that is open to viewing by all your friends does not constitute “a private conversation among themselves”, which is evidenced by the fact that someone that was not involved in the conversation was able to take a screen shot. What you post on Facebook is not considered “private” which many people have learned the hard way through losing their jobs or being criminally charged through offensive Facebook posts. Read your privacy agreement, the law is not on your side.

        Secondly, your comment about “crying rape” is confusing and i think it stems from a misunderstanding of what rape culture is or what this article is ultimately about. “Rape Culture” is different saying rape has occurred. Here is a primary example of rape culture, where men are demeaning a woman sexually instead of discussing relevant factors to her candidacy by talking about what she proposes to do, etc.

        Thirdly, how is she “taking their reputations and dragging them through the dirt”, by posting a conversations that they themselves were the authors of. The primary defence to defamation case is whether the defendant can prove what they said is true, which no one is debating. All that aside, the fact they are defending their actions in this way truly speaks to the type of people they are.

        Just to leave you with one last thought- how would you feel if your mother or sister was the target of this conversation. Would you expect them to feel totally fine about it? What if you told them it was just a private conversation on Facebook? Or that it was just men expressing their sexual desires?

        Clearly you are one of the people involved, which is why you don’t want to sign your name to your post. Too bad you weren’t smart enough to do that the first time.

      • Wtf March 1, 2014 at 5:10 pm #

        Harassment by definition is when someone does or says something that a reasonable person aught to have known would be unwelcome. This includes third parties. It was stated by the writing that the woman was sent this by someone else. If that third person was offended, it is still considered harassment.

        How do you know there was no intent? It’s still considered uttering threats and just because it was a discussion on an online medium, does not mean it is any less threatening then if they’d been discussing it out loud as a group.

        Further more, no one has claimed she was raped. The anger stems from the fact that these people discussed degrading the victim so easily and that an incentive was even offered.

        This kind of behaviour towards anyone, either male or female is unacceptable. That there are still people like yourself out there that believe that this is no big deal and that the victim is overreacting is exactly what is wrong with the world these days.

        Telling victims that they need to just deal with it, that it’s the victims problem, is so beyond disgusting to me that I don’t even know where to start discussing it.

        Your victim blaming and easy dismissal of this issue shows that there is still a long road to travel if we want to get rid of rape culture.

      • Something March 1, 2014 at 5:18 pm #

        “Crying out rape/sexual assault is as bad as raping/sexual assault.” You’re so disgusting and idiotic, I find it surprising you can even find your damn keyboard. There are no words for how wrong you are, from start to finish.

      • Brenda March 1, 2014 at 8:02 pm #

        Whoever, defamation. Sexual harassment. Threats. Intimidation. Texts are published and they had no expectation of privacy. They were in the wrong.

      • tee March 1, 2014 at 8:18 pm #

        They were not stating “sexual desires” as in that they wanted to have sex with her. They were talking about an act of domination, “punishing her”. There is prejudicial intent as they were inciting each other to RAPE her, offering each other prizes. The fact that none of these boys did is irrelevant as you do not legally judge a crime based on the outcome. You judge it by the act and the intent. They intended to say those things (the motive of it being a joke is irrelevant to a criminal conviction- might be relevant to sentencing ONLY), and those things did, on face value, incite each other to commit an act of sexual domination against this woman. This is NOT a private conversation, but a public forum and inciting someone to perform an illegal act is a crime. These boys should be criminally charged.

      • linddykal March 2, 2014 at 5:45 am #

        Whoever, you’re gross. Sexual desire? “Punishing her with their shaft” and ass raping her are not stating sexual desire. But it’s nice to know that’s how you think.

      • Jenna March 2, 2014 at 6:02 am #

        If someone said they were gonna “punish” your daughter or mother “with the shaft”, talked about giving each other prizes for sleeping with her, and wondered if she had chlamydia or syphilis and then everyone wrote ‘lol’…Would you shrug and say that’s just fine?!

      • linddykal March 2, 2014 at 6:05 am #

        “Shes taking these guys`reputations and dragging them in the dirt, which should be (and hopefully will) punished by law.”
        Are you serious? They publically joke about ass raping her on Facebook. She’s not dragging them through the mud. They drug themselves. She’s calling them misogynists. Now the whole world knows what they are. It’s very ironic that they don’t like people on the internet having bad intentions toward them. It’s called karma.

      • Little Miss Obvious March 2, 2014 at 6:32 am #

        @Lyndsey: I would prefer my mother or sister was the victim of unfair, sexual gossip than the victim of a rape or sexual assault or threat of such. You’re smart enough to know there is a HUGE difference. Women demean men sexually all the time: ‘Rape culture’?

        @Brenda – so the only privacy we have is our thoughts? I’m glad you aren’t a lawyer or judge.

        @tee – same to you. WE should criminally charge any woman who says a guy is ‘bad in bed’ or jokes she wants to ‘chop off his penis’? Those people shoudl go to jail?

      • Lyndsey March 2, 2014 at 5:57 pm #

        @littlemissobvious why does it have to be one or the other? The question was how would you feel if your mother or sister was the subject of the conversation in the article. The question has nothing to do with rape.

    • john smith March 2, 2014 at 6:08 pm #

      Really?! Have we actually become this sensitive. There is literally NOTHING about rape or forced sex in this conversation. It is a pretty normal, if vulgar, conversation. If this is ‘defamation’, I’d love to see conversations between girls talking shit about others girls. Insane.

      • Brenda March 2, 2014 at 7:46 pm #

        I disagree entirely, and what they said was published — it was put in a text and shared. What they said was demeaning, threatening and abusive. I’m so sad if you consider that normal. People have no expectation of privacy on social media, and it’s not okay to be abusive on it. It’s not a private forum.

      • john smith March 2, 2014 at 7:49 pm #

        Demeaning? Yes. But I fail to see threat or abuse. Please tell me where in this conversation there was ever a threat.

      • Brenda March 2, 2014 at 7:54 pm #

        “Punished”

      • john smith March 2, 2014 at 8:00 pm #

        Lol if that’s what you consider a ‘threat’ you shouldn’t even be looking around on the internet. A threat implies real intent to cause harm. Perhaps he could have used a different word, but this is far from an imminent threat to cause bodily harm. Nothing in the conversation implies a lack of consent.

      • Brenda March 2, 2014 at 8:20 pm #

        Why don’t you reread the entire conversation, except substitute yourself for her. How would you feel if they said those same things about you, publicly? If you are willing to give it that much effort, and you still feel the same, fine, we will agree to differ.

        But I wonder why you defend the “rape culture” and why you need to argue with me, when as a woman I see something that saddens me and shocks me. I am as entitled to my opinion as you are to yours. I wonder why you feel it’s okay for her to be demeaned publicly by men in power at a university where she is a student, probably living away from the protection of her family. If you had ever been in her position, you might understand. You moniker suggests you are male, in which case you have not.

        Are you really defending yourself here? Do you make these jokes? Do you think it’s funny to think of women demeaned, punished and humiliated publicly?

        I feel sad for you and your whole family if that’s the case.

      • john smith March 2, 2014 at 8:27 pm #

        I never said that the things that were said were good or pleasant to hear about oneself. If someone said those things about me, I would feel pretty crappy. But I would not feel threatened or the need to take legal action. Being offended sucks, but it’s something that is completely subjective and cannot be legislated against. It is a fact of life because a) people have differing opinions on what is offensive and b) some people are simply not very nice. But it’s not a crime either.

        I find it interesting that you think these men are ‘in power’ and she’s vulnerable. That seems sexist to me. She’s the PRESIDENT of the student body. The men are: 1 essentially random person, 1 person on the board of the student federation (of which she is the president, ergo she has power over him), and three ‘VP Social’ guys, which is a much lower, college or faculty level position and essentially means they plan parties. Hardly ‘powerful men’, especially compared to her. It seems sexist to me that you assume that she’s in a power deficit here when all objective evidence suggests otherwise.

        I don’t think it’s funny for anyone to be humiliated or demeaned publicly. My point is that getting offended is something that is a fact of life, and if we start trying to legislate against it, we will severely restrict freedom of speech, and it would become very subjective.

        Overall, I’m not condoning their behaviour, but to call this rape culture and to take legal action against it is excessive in my opinion.

      • Brenda March 2, 2014 at 8:43 pm #

        Defamation is still defamation. This was not a conversation in the men’s room. This was published on social media, and publishing disparaging and abusive remarks is not okay. As for who those men were, I understood them to be employed by the university and not fellow students, but I don’t really care who they were, they were more than three and she was only one person. You can’t tell me that if they had formed a circle around her and were saying those things to her, she would have been safe, happy and cozy. Men use the threat of sexual violence to discourage women from seeking any real power all the time. You would know this if you were female. That is rape culture, and you are defending it as normal. That makes me sad for you, for your family and for our society as a whole.

      • john smith March 2, 2014 at 8:51 pm #

        You’re splitting hairs here. While it may not have physically taken place in a private setting, it did take place in a private message. If their intent had been to defame or libel, they could have easily published it elsewhere. Obviously that wasn’t it. There is debate as to how private the internet can/should be, but it’s clear and unfortunate that this was a private conversation that someone chose to make public. The whole point is that they DIDN’T form a circle around her, neither physically or virtually (e.g. they could have posted all that on her wall, but didn’t). They had a private conversation, and it did get a little vulgar but to say their intention was to prevent her from having power or to rape her is just delusional.

      • Brenda March 2, 2014 at 9:48 pm #

        Your attempt to justify their behavior is the problem. This discussion is over.

      • Sean H March 2, 2014 at 10:06 pm #

        100% agree with you, this has blown ridiculously out of proportion and has come to point of where it’s destroying their reputations. Conversations like this happen all the time, are people really going to start taking every “Oh I’d love to F*** that girl” as a threat of rape?! You’re insane.

        If this is what people on here think “rape culture” is then you’re all terribly misinformed

  8. Sin City Siren March 1, 2014 at 12:00 am #

    Reblogged this on The Sin City Siren and commented:
    Clearly, there is a TRIGGER WARNING with this post regarding sexual assault, rape, and violence against women. Please read with care.

    • Little Miss Obvious March 2, 2014 at 6:25 am #

      No I will not read your blog. I’m standing up to ‘blogger culture’.

      There was no sexual assault, rape or violence that occurred, or was threatened in the facebook conversation.

      You and other feminist bloggers are desperate for attention at the cost of people’s reputation.

      Shame on you. There are real consequences to your actions, unlike the imaginary ones tied to the assholes in the article.

      • tegan March 2, 2014 at 6:04 pm #

        Shut up. No one cares about your opinion on reblogging no matter how many times you whine about it.

      • B March 2, 2014 at 7:47 pm #

        Hi,
        I’m confused as to what you mean by ‘blogger culture’ and ‘disenfranchising women’ which is something you say a couple of times in other posts on this page. Could you explain?

      • Forrest Hartman-Harris March 2, 2014 at 7:49 pm #

        Why do you have to comment on everything? If you aren’t going to read these blogs then don’t. Who the fuck cares?

  9. lululucysrant March 1, 2014 at 1:15 am #

    Reblogged this on Lu-Lu-Lucy's Rant and commented:
    People say that there’s. That is the biggest fucking pile of BULLSHIT ever. I guess by “people,” I mean “men.” This topic has been on my mind, I will make the time this weekend to finish up my post. For now, please read up on this BS that is happening at the University of Ottawa.

    • Little Miss Obvious March 2, 2014 at 6:22 am #

      No. I will not read your blog. I’m sick of ‘blog culture’ and how it demeans actual fact and reality and turn it into a bastard child of sensationalist media and cries for attention.

      • lululucysrant March 2, 2014 at 6:46 am #

        Great! Doesn’t bother me one bit.

      • Nevermore March 2, 2014 at 12:03 pm #

        Little Miss Obvious you have shown you are incredibly obvious about your opinion of blogging culture. Now, please, be quiet. Some of us would like to read what others have to say.

  10. This is not rape March 1, 2014 at 1:50 am #

    This is mean and it ends there, talk about demeaning the term “rape”. The amount of time and money are school is wasting on this situation is almost as disgusting as the conversation itself. Clearly they were referring to her promiscuity and yeah it was mean/wrong, but no one even close to raped her and the deal she is making out of this out of pure selfishness… she’s not much better than them.

    • Kiersten March 1, 2014 at 3:44 am #

      No one said she was raped. The issue being address here is rape culture. You can convince yourself all you like that these types of comments are acceptable, that boys will be boys, and it’s all talk and nothing more. The fact is that by doing so, you are condoning discourse which encourages violence against women. Discussing promiscuity is one thing. Saying that you want to “punish her with [your] shaft” goes beyond that. I am sincerely relieved that the school is taking this issue more seriously than you do.

      • This is not rape March 1, 2014 at 5:09 am #

        Looking into rape culture and why we consider it bad, it seems to mean that when guys make crude, sexually explicit jokes about actions that are wildly wrong when actually performed, it desensitizes the issue of rape and makes it seem okay. When girls throw around the word “rape”, it actually makes “rape” seem less serious than it really is, which is even worse than what the guys do. These guys were obviously terribly mean and that can’t be denied, it just seems like the media is taking the president down to their level by throwing the word “rape” in there. They honestly seem to be crude and sarcastic about it, more like laughing at the thought of ever banging her. If Bart really wanted to bang her, why would they buy him a beer for doing it? That’s something you get for someone after they do something they don’t wanna do. These guys were total assholes and there’s a lot of things wrong with the conversation they had, but rape culture should be kept separate from it. Obviously guys who have these kinds of Facebook conversations shouldn’t be in charge, but an overconfident drama queen who yells “rape” because she thinks her shit don’t stink shouldn’t be in charge either. Ridiculous that this actually happens at such a level.

      • Auntie Alias March 1, 2014 at 6:34 am #

        @This, “Someone punish her with their shaft” is advocating rape. The promise of beer was an incentive.

        Rape culture goes far beyond rape jokes but they are definitely part of it and you explained why very well. Trivializing sexual violence or threats of it is another part of rape culture. Chances are these guys had no intention of carrying it out but I would have been concerned if that kind of talk was aimed at me because you never know.

        Attitudes like theirs are at the core of sexual violence. It was more than joking; they were angry that Anne Marie Roy was re-elected and wanted revenge. If she had been a man, that conversation would have never taken place.

        I don’t know why you’re denigrating her. You don’t know that she’s promiscuous (and so what if she is?) and then you called her an “overconfident drama queen” who thinks “her shit don’t stink.” Where is that coming from? Why are you angry at her?

      • Little Miss Obvious March 2, 2014 at 6:00 am #

        Kiersten, you, and feminists who believe the same things, seriously don’t understand rape and are in danger of putting yourselves in situations where you are at risk.

        If you think guys describing sexual fantasies and rape are similar you are very wrong and I fear you don;t have proper judgement.

        A rapist will not be overt he will be covert.

        He’ll seem harmless and trustworthy, you’ll be comfortable around him, you’ll let your guard down, you’ll be somewhere familiar and safe, no one else will be around…and if he’s confident you won’t go to the police…

        Ask anyone in our society who’s been raped and they’ll say they didn’t see it coming.

        Stop pretending you understand rape or rapist. You’re endangering yourself and other women.

        There is no rape culture, only selfish feminists who want to sell books, give lectures and write blogs.

        Rapists are criminals, they don’t discuss their activities.

    • concerned citizen March 1, 2014 at 6:21 pm #

      Rape culture is different than rape. Take some time to familiarize yourself with what it is before commenting on what you think it means. What she is doing is not in the least bit selfish, she is doing it on behalf of all persons, especially women, who have been subject to this kind of treatment and silently let it go because they didnt want to be subject to the same scrutiny from people like you who have never had to deal with this type of treatment. She is brave for coming forward and setting an example that this type of conversation is not acceptable. I commend her and the University of Ottawa for taking this issue seriously, and find it disgusting that people like you take time out of their day to try to devalue their efforts.

      • This is not rape March 1, 2014 at 8:37 pm #

        It would be awful to see a real rape situation being dealt with in the same way this crude conversation between 5 guys who were being assholes is being dealt with. It’s more serious than that when it actually happens, so a distinction should be made. You probably don’t think it’s disgusting that I’m trying to get people to see the true act as more serious than a disgusting joke.

        I’m degrading a very general type of girl who is overconfident and dramatic, who typically throws around that word for attention. I take back applying it specifically to the president, but I hope she speaks up to make it clear that it’s about something other than “pre-meditated rape” as that’s not what this is. Just saying that it demonstrates what assholes they are is good enough, people are smart enough to draw their own conclusions that don’t involve rape.

        The backbone of my argument is the same as everyone else’s here. It’s AGAINST rape and FOR taking cases of true rape seriously. The boy who cried wolf was no longer taken seriously, and being a girl does not change the outcome of the story in the long run, despite any feminist’s best efforts.

      • Auntie Alias March 1, 2014 at 10:13 pm #

        @This is not rape,

        First of all, the president didn’t use the word rape. She talked about misogyny and student safety. Secondly, we all know the difference between a threat and the act of rape.

        “I’m degrading a very general type of girl who is overconfident and dramatic, who typically throws around that word for attention.”

        Really. I think that “girl” is a figment of your misogynistic imagination.

      • Little Miss Obvious March 2, 2014 at 6:03 am #

        She’s creating a false belief that we can detect or identify rape or rapist attitudes before they occur.

        She’s doing it (literally) for political gain.

        Rapists don’t talk about rape, because society (OUR society) doesn’t tolerate rape.

        DO you know what they do to rapists in prison? That’s what OTHER CRIMINALS DO TO RAPIST.

        You’re operating under an academic myth, and that puts you and others in danger.

      • Little Miss Obvious March 2, 2014 at 6:06 am #

        And we also know now why she won in the first place.

        SHE WAS SPYING ON THEM THROUGH FACEBOOK!!

        It’s like House of Cards, only boring and spreading disinformation about rape.

    • Drew March 1, 2014 at 7:11 pm #

      @This is not rape:

      You can’t actually be this stupid, can you? Clearly, reading comprehension is not your forte. WHERE does it say she accused them of rape? I suggest you learn the difference between an instance of rape culture at work, and a formal accusation of rape.

      Understand one thing: these morons are responsible for their own situation. They deserve no sympathy. They got themselves here with their repulsive and despicable statements on a public web-based platform (so there goes any possibility of a credible argument that this was a private conversation).

      Now, you and they want to blame Ms. Roy for dragging them through the mud when, truthfully, THEIR OWN WORDS nailed them to the wall and now they will have to deal with the consequences of their actions.

      You may not like them, but those are the facts. Deal with it.

      • Little Miss Obvious March 2, 2014 at 6:07 am #

        The author accused them of rape. How can someone contribute to a rape culture and not be a rapist themself? Logic my friend…use it.

      • Kiersten March 3, 2014 at 2:26 am #

        @Little Miss Obvious. Obviously, you’re missing the point. Thank you for your insight on rapist tendencies and behavior. You sound like an expert. But unfortunately, you bring nothing productive or valuable to this conversation. In fact, your repetitive attempts to make excuses for the unacceptable comments these boys made and your misunderstanding of the term rape culture further compounds the problem. Feel free to stop trolling boards that are trying to create public awareness and bring about change. I don’t hear too many jokes being made about men being raped, and I certainly don’t know people who joke about raping children. So why should jokes about raping women be any different?

    • Cassandra Pollock March 1, 2014 at 9:50 pm #

      You broke the law participating the conversation. No where in the conversation did any say that they were joking, instead they took turns offering rewards to whomever would follow through with the actual rape. Just the fact that you would offer larger & larger rewards as the conversation continued show there was intent. I say you because you are afraid to reveal your identity so that leads me to conclude that you were one of the participants in the conversation. Your mother must feel so ashamed your her son. My condolences to her.

      • Little Miss Obvious March 2, 2014 at 6:21 am #

        COMEDIAN: I’m joking now, just so you know, I AM NOW JOKING. Why did the chicken cross the road? To get to the other side!

        Just a reminder, I was joking just now. That was a joke. There is no chicken, and no road. Please laugh at the end of this sentence.

        Yeah, I don’t want to live in your reality Cassandra. Feel free to join ours when it’s convenient!

    • Amanda March 2, 2014 at 12:30 am #

      The amount of time and money ‘our” school not, ‘are’ school.
      Simpleton. That means stupid.
      You’re just stupid.

      • Little Miss Obvious March 2, 2014 at 6:08 am #

        You’re creating an ‘insult culture’. Whereby people normalize insulting people.

    • linddykal March 2, 2014 at 5:53 am #

      Rape Culture is not rape. The point is that these men were publicly joking about assaulting her. If they were joking about lynching a black man, the point is THESE JOKES ARE NOT FUNNY, show an undercurrent of threat and violence, and should be punished by law. It doesn’t matter if “they weren’t really going to do it or not.” Dehumanizing someone is the first step in being violent toward someone.

      • Little Miss Obvious March 2, 2014 at 6:12 am #

        Assaulting her?

        linddykal…I feel sorry for you having to live in a society where whatever you think should be illegal isn’t illegal.

        But honestly, by your definition, some of the feminists IN THIS COMMENTS SECTION should go to jail for saying that these men should have their penises chopped off, or that other commentors are stupid…

        By your definition porn is rape culture. Feminism has long ago decided that porn empowers women. They make more money than the men do too.

        Which is it? Pick a silly argument a go with it.

  11. Guillaume March 1, 2014 at 1:53 am #

    PLEASE tell me these assholes don’t have a shot for a case against Roy …

    • Whoever March 1, 2014 at 3:26 pm #

      I hope they sue her and win! They had a private conversation among themselves, yes stating sexual desires, but with no prejudicial intent. They have no plans to act upon it, they dont plan a rape like its made out to be… Its not even sexual assault! She`s playing victim, like too many women do. Shes taking these guys`reputations and dragging them in the dirt, which should be (and hopefully will) punished by law. Crying out rape/sexual assault is as bad as raping/sexual assault.

      • Shaft Punisher March 1, 2014 at 4:35 pm #

        I agree

      • QuelleSurprise March 1, 2014 at 6:31 pm #

        “She`s playing victim, like too many women do” oh my god you’re as bad as they are.

      • Nathalie March 1, 2014 at 8:25 pm #

        Facebook Conversations are not private. She’s not “Playing” the victim, she IS the victim of violent sexually assaulting comments, attacking her in her integrity as a woman. Promoting rape is no different than promoting racism. How would you react if the situation was the same but transposed against a child. If pedophile fantasy conversation was being displayed in the same way. Would your argument stand the same way? Or do you have double standards for women and children?

      • This is not rape March 1, 2014 at 8:40 pm #

        I totally agree. If women keep crying that out, the word “rape” won’t be taken seriously one day, and this whole thing is extremely insulting to any past or future victims who might not get the help and attention they need.

      • Ralph March 1, 2014 at 9:54 pm #

        Whoever – you’re one of the perpretrators trying to stick up for these villains, aren’t you?

      • Auntie Alias March 2, 2014 at 1:08 am #

        @This is not rape

        “If women keep crying that out, the word “rape” won’t be taken seriously one day”

        It isn’t taken seriously now!!

    • Westy Coasty Grad Studenty March 1, 2014 at 11:39 pm #

      I think it will really depend on whether they had any reasonable expectation of privacy in that Facebook conversation. Clearly somebody who had access to the conversation took photos of it, so that might be considered lawful access. If they send it to somebody else, and they had rightful access to the discussion, its gonna be fair game. Whether its criminal is another matter entirely.

      If somebody just searched FB and saw the convo because the participants didn’t lock down the settings correctly, you can argue they didn’t intend for it to be private. If somebody hacked a computer or FB account or used force/threats to get access to the conversation, that’s another thing.

      It will be really interesting to see what their legal argument is going to be. Keep in mind too that it will just bring more attention to their discussions and they may be required to provide all their FB records as part of the lawsuit, and if they’ve deleted it already, that will work against them too. How much do you wanna bet there won’t be other embarrassing things on their FB profiles that would not look good during discovery?

      As far as them just talking about rape and not being rapists, that may be the case. But look at it this way – if they were talking about this from a race perspective, eg. talking about her/or somebody deserving mistreatment because they were black, asian, aboriginal or whatever, even if they said they were just joking, would it be unreasonable to think that maybe they were racists under the skin?

      Rape culture isn’t about what they’ve done, its about what they would like to do if all the limits were gone: from reading this stuff, its like its external consequences that prevent them from getting what they want, not their own conscience and sense of right and wrong. Its that indication of inner predisposition that is at the heart of rape culture. Its something that can be unlearned, but that takes effort and peer support – this discussion shows the opposite. If you elect people or befriend them based on what’s inside them, this is a relevant revelation. They’re pissed they got outed and blame the object of their sexualized animosity. That also tells you something. I’m not expecting any kind of heartfelt genuine apology anytime soon. I’m actually just as interested in how the internet reacts to this – its still up in the air who gets tagged as the bad person in this whole thing: the guys for being rapey-douches, or the girl for calling them on it. Sadly, and especially on the net, methinks misogyny is the rule rather than the exception still.

    • Little Miss Obvious March 2, 2014 at 6:16 am #

      The more feminists throw around the term ‘rape culture’ the less society responds to the word ‘rape’. Congratulations feminism!

      Rape doesn’t mean rape anymore…it means whenever a woman feels unsafe or insecure.

      Because whenever a woman feels unsafe, insecure, threatened, insulted, abused, or generally uncomfortable in any way…IT’S SOCIETIES FAULT AND SOCIETY SHOULD CHANGE (i.e. the male patriarchy – that has given her the luxuries she takes for granted on a daily basis).

      If you aren’t happy with society, go live in the forest, hunt and gather your food, shit in a hole and wipe your ass with leaves, and if you get sick, dig a hole a die in it….

      • sarahcspencer March 2, 2014 at 5:17 pm #

        Yeah that’s totally untrue. Rape means the sexual assault of someone. I think most people understand the difference from feeling unsafe or insecure vs. rape. Maybe it’s you who doesn’t.

      • Forrest Hartman-Harris March 2, 2014 at 8:15 pm #

        You’re an idiot.

      • Kiersten March 3, 2014 at 2:34 am #

        Show me where the definition of rape says “when a woman feels unsafe, insecure, threatened, insulted, abused, or generally uncomfortable in any way.” Show me where that definition has been applied in the court of law. You can’t, because that’s not the definition of rape. Besides, you’re missing the point. You see the terms rape culture and rape as interchangeable. They’re not. Just because you can’t wrap your head around the term rape culture doesn’t mean it should be removed from public discourse.

      • quinn March 3, 2014 at 4:55 pm #

        So essentially, you’re using semantics to apologize for,what? Bullying? Harassment? Degradation? Give us a word that will make sense to you and let’s go forward using that in any conversations you’re involved in. If the issue is that simple, then let’s make it simple. Choose a word to describe this creepy, antisocial behaviour and we’ll resume the discussion from there.

  12. Auntie Alias March 1, 2014 at 2:38 am #

    This makes me feel ill. Anyone who claims rape isn’t about power and control needs to read this exchange. These men weren’t having sexual fantasies; they wanted to punish and degrade an opponent because she’s a woman who bested their candidate.

    • memorableblogtitle March 1, 2014 at 11:15 pm #

      Exactly! I’m not sure why that’s so hard for some commenters to understand.

    • Little Miss Obvious March 2, 2014 at 5:53 am #

      They wanted to vent their feelings of anger, frustration and loss. They’re aspiring politicians…obviously not the best role models.

      Feminists don’t understand male feelings and make zero efforts to try.
      .

  13. Shut the fuck up March 1, 2014 at 3:54 am #

    Whoever wrote this, and everyone commenting on this, is a fucking joke.

    • Auntie Alias March 1, 2014 at 4:27 am #

      You’re taking this personally. I wonder why.

    • Guillaume March 1, 2014 at 4:36 am #

      please, enlighten us

  14. sam March 1, 2014 at 4:09 am #

    No one is going to get raped. These guys are just sharing a few hacky and taboo remarks regarding someone in the SFUO leadership.

    I don’t understand rape culture so I am not going to comment on that but these messages will not result in a PHYSICAL attack on Mrs Roy.

    Guys love to talk shit, its what we do. We obsessed with sex, drawing penises and bragging about how awesome we are. I can’t tell you how many times I heard ” I am going to kill that ******* guy ” and just like that never lead to a murder these message will not lead to a rape.

    • Eric March 1, 2014 at 3:47 pm #

      Those are symptoms of your immaturity, not of your penis.

      • memorableblogtitle March 1, 2014 at 11:16 pm #

        Zing! Also, correct.

      • Little Miss Obvious March 2, 2014 at 5:51 am #

        Nice, you obviously are above insulting people on the internet.

  15. aqilaqamar March 1, 2014 at 5:05 am #

    Reblogged this on Iconography ♠ Incomplete and commented:
    Very disturbing. I bet those guys should find themselves squeezed into a hole until their penises burst or something because the muscles tightened around them. Yes, it sounds bad but that is how they sounded. Seriously, are they like immature idiots imitating rape fetsish they see in poorly done porn I bet some of them like dominatrixes and things like that. On a note men and woman both should not talk about this about any persons themselves or other or same genders,. Disgusting.

    • Little Miss Obvious March 2, 2014 at 5:48 am #

      Please, let’s end the culture of ‘feminist blogger incest’

      Don’t repost tripe.

    • Little Miss Obvious March 2, 2014 at 5:50 am #

      Ahahaha.

      Who was saying that there is never verbal violence against men?

      Wow.

      That’s good hypocrisy

  16. Marie-Frédérique March 1, 2014 at 5:29 am #

    Wow. C’est extraordinaire comment une conversation Facebook peut se rendre aussi loin, malheureusement, ce n’est pas un cas isolé. La culture du viol est plus que des simples mots ou des expressions déplacées, c’est cette volonté haineuse de démolir la personne, cette volonté de blesser sexuellement. Je suis très déçue de voir ces commentaires, au pire on s’en fou qu’elle vienne de Trois-Rivières ou non, t’es vraiment obligé de la sodomiser pour autant ? J’espère sincèrement que des recours seront pris et que Mlle Roy gardera sang froid et tête haute pour dénoncer ce type ”d’humour” bestiale, rétrograde et primitif.

    Au plaisir,
    Sincèrement,
    Marie-Frédérique,

    • Little Miss Obvious March 2, 2014 at 5:47 am #

      Il y ades gens dans ta famille qui font la meme chose. Un pere ou une frere…

      J’imagine que ca va etre ton prio dans les prochaines jours de corriger leurs comportement. Parce que les hommes sont comme des chiens….

      Les femmes sont exceptionelles.

      Ou, tu peux juste contribuer a une ‘culture d’ignorance’ propagé par le feminism, avec zero action concrete sur ta part.

  17. what has it all come to March 1, 2014 at 5:42 am #

    Is this not a breach of privacy? I am shocked by both sides of this situation. Honestly speaking, we all go to school and sometimes we come across awful things, but if we don’t move on, we shall be forever stuck in the same mess. Forgive and be forgotten

    • Something March 1, 2014 at 5:22 pm #

      Someone who was in the conversation made the conversation public by sending it to Roy, therefore she didn’t break their privacy, or spy on them, or anything that could get her in legal trouble.

      • so confused March 1, 2014 at 6:30 pm #

        Do we know it was someone from the conversation? Or someone outside, like a third party.

    • kait March 1, 2014 at 9:46 pm #

      it is not breach of privacy because once you type or post anything on the internet it becomes public property and can be accessed by the proper authorities if need be. police, employers, even universities

  18. Aaron Rained March 1, 2014 at 5:57 am #

    I find it curious that people are this deeply offended over a hypothetical, passive commisseration. Men are internally damned just as easily when you call them gross unbefittingly behind our backs or sneer at them when they exhibit nothing but kindness. To label man as prude, rather than treat every human encounter as a unique experience, is to make yourself no less a hypocrite than those you vilify.

    • Shannkn March 1, 2014 at 7:35 pm #

      Thank you for your metaphysical contribution. Are they still internally damned when they’re called gross befittingly though, or when their kindness has contingencies that we pay for as women on a daily basis? Wild guess: you’re not a woman. When a strange man wants to have a friendly conversation with me, it’s usually irrelevant to them that id rather not be engaged. I’m thinking this is precisely what you’re talking about. The only difference is that a blatant disregard for my preferences while forcing me to engage with you, demanding that I indulge you with friendliness, to me, is not kindness. It’s entitlement. And the fact that I’m required as a mildly attractive woman to do this multiple times a week, sometimes per day, never factors in to your analysis. It’s my social obligation to be friendly to men who see me and decide to talk to me no matter when, where, how often it occurs and no matter how I feel. Sucks to be me I guess.

      • memorableblogtitle March 1, 2014 at 11:19 pm #

        “…a blatant disregard for my preferences while forcing me to engage with you, demanding that I indulge you with friendliness, to me, is not kindness. It’s entitlement.”–exactly. Perfectly stated.

      • Little Miss Obvious March 2, 2014 at 5:39 am #

        Boo-fucking-hoo. Now we all feel sorry for you and your burden as a woman.

        You demean all women by crying for pity.

        Go fight a war, or work in a coal mine for 30 years, or go to prison for a crime you didn’t commit, or be called a rapist when you aren’t one.

        Why should anyone sympathize with you? You aren’t the center of the universe.

        Now who’s entitled? You’ve done nothing to contribute to the amenities you take for granted every day.

        That running water

        That toilet paper and indoor plumbing

        That transit system and roads and the internet and science and medicine that will save your life.

        You’ve done nothing to earn them. You’ve done nothing to earn my sympathy.

        Boo-fucking-hoo

      • Little Miss Obvious March 2, 2014 at 5:41 am #

        Try this, ‘poor little woman who’s out of options and at the end of her rope’:

        “HI, I don’t really feel like talking to you today”

        Or don’t make eye contact.

        Or learn how to say no.

        It’s a society. If you can’t get along with others you don’t deserve what others have given you do you?

      • Little Miss Obvious March 2, 2014 at 5:44 am #

        Seriously. Having a conversation with a stranger you don’t want to talk to is the cross you bear?

        We’re all f-ing doomed.

        This woman can’t say ‘Please leave me alone’ to a stranger.

        Maybe if she’s coddled and spoiled by the so-called ‘patriarchy’ some more…

  19. For real ? March 1, 2014 at 6:20 am #

    “To make things even worse, these men are all in a position of leadership at the University of Ottawa. These are the people that the students look up to, that they use as a sort of moral compass to navigate university life”

    L O FUCKING L
    No one gives a flying fuck about the SFUO, no wonder the election turnout barely hits the double digits.

    “including a rape joke that could, potentially, be taken as a rape threat”
    You are making an escalation where there is none. Jesus Christ, this is locker room talk. Girls are guilty of the same shit
    This is a non-scandal from a political organization that has no clout in the school. Rape culture is a fucking joke

  20. GD March 1, 2014 at 6:37 am #

    It may be worth noting that the Ontario Court of Appeal recently established a tort for invasion of privacy:

    “One who intentionally intrudes, physically or otherwise, upon the seclusion of another or his private affairs or concerns, is subject to liability to the other for invasion of his privacy, if the invasion would be highly offensive to a reasonable person.”

    Click to access 2012ONCA0032.pdf

    • Auntie Alias March 1, 2014 at 3:32 pm #

      Anne Marie Roy received the information anonymously so I don’t think that applies.

      • r r March 2, 2014 at 8:46 pm #

        You are so fucking oblivious.

        Intent – check
        Breach of privacy – check
        Highly offensive – check

    • Something March 1, 2014 at 5:28 pm #

      That law would apply to the person that sent her the screencaps. It had to be someone who was in the conversation. Once the screencaps have been leaked, then they’re public.

    • JAWZ March 1, 2014 at 8:28 pm #

      The fact pattern in that case is grossly different. Suing on the matter stands as much chance of succeeding as what’s-her-face actually being assaulted (zero).

    • Little Miss Obvious March 2, 2014 at 5:33 am #

      She (Anne) used the information to generate sympathy for herself.

      She is already a master manipulator of opinion and image and has cast herself as a victim in order to gain popularity.

      She’ll be a politician one day, and will rob all you ignorant feminists blind because she is playing you like harps.

  21. Kayla.k March 1, 2014 at 6:52 am #

    How do people get so worked up about this? It’s a few guys having a private conversation joking around. It’s not like they actually raped her. I guess the femnazis wont even let guys jokingly make sexual remarks without being viewed as monsters. Calm down.

    • These Replies Tho March 1, 2014 at 4:26 pm #

      So let me see if I understand your logic. BECAUSE there was no rape of the victim and only so called “joking” threats of it, there should be no fuss made of it. So you would rather that people wait until someone is raped before reacting? You should look into developing your critical thinking skills a little further. I’m disturbed that you and all of the other posters here who want her to ‘just get over it, it is a joke’ lack empathy for what it would feel like to know you work along side people who would say such disgusting things. There was VIOLENCE insinuated in those comments. It was not a matter of a couple of guys joking around about how hot she was and how they would want to get with her. If you can’t tell the difference you(collectively) need to reexamine your reading comprehension skills. Consider for once if you would feel any differently if it was your mother, sister, girlfriend, wife, grandmother, close female friend etc that these statements were said of. I’m done.

      • Kayla.k March 1, 2014 at 8:49 pm #

        It’s a joke. They obviously were not planning a rape. If there was a joke made about anything else no one would care. If one of them said something like “I feel like killing her because of x hahaha” and they all laughed about it, no one would be saying anything.

        To answer your last point, people have said such things about both me (I’m a girl) and my sister and I don’t care. It’s a joke, they aren’t serious.

      • Little Miss Obvious March 2, 2014 at 5:28 am #

        FEMINIST: Don’t tell me how to dress or not to get drunk or not to go to bars late at night! I can hang out with strangers and do drugs and not have to worry about getting raped!

        MALE: Don’t tell us what we can or can’t say behind your back. Don’t make us look like rapists if we aren’t.

        FEMINIST: Fuck you, I don’t want to get raped. Should I wait to get raped before telling you to not make jokes.

        SOCIETY: *facepalm*

        LITTLE GIRLS: (in unison) I wish I had a positive role model

        CORPORATIONS: (evilly) Come here my pretties…

        LOUIS C.K.: I don’t make rape jokes anymore. Because joking about something terrible and doing that terrible thing to actual human beings is confusing for some people.

      • Little Miss Obvious March 2, 2014 at 5:30 am #

        If someone said that about my mother or sister I would punch them in the face.

        That doesn’t make them a rapist or make me want to make people think they’re rapists.

    • Something March 1, 2014 at 5:26 pm #

      Talking about punishing someone with your dick is not a sexual remark, it’s talking about raping someone for doing something you don’t approve of as though it’s no big deal. Talk about sex and boobs and how many girls your banged all you want, but when you cross the line into “punishing someone” with your penis, you’ve crossed the line into rape.

      • memorableblogtitle March 1, 2014 at 11:22 pm #

        Exactly! Why aren’t people getting this? It’s so simple. Wanted sexual contact is not punishment, therefore, framing it as punishment suggests the contact is unwanted, and that lack of consent is not only expected but irrelevant.

      • Little Miss Obvious March 2, 2014 at 7:09 am #

        Right. ’50 shades of grey’ was about a guy who raped a girl and she fell in love with him and kept coming back for more ( I actually didn’t read it).

        I saw you outside Chapters protesting the ‘rape culture’ of that book right? You and all the ‘fair weather feminists’…

    • ForReal? March 1, 2014 at 7:30 pm #

      “Feminazi.” Aren’t you clever? Surely, you’re the first person to conflate an ideology advocating equality with the actions of people who committed genocide. 2 out of 10 troll points. Try harder next time.

    • Kiersten March 1, 2014 at 10:05 pm #

      According to your logic, joking about raping children is perfectly acceptable, as long as you don’t do it. That’s pretty sick.

      • RealPolitik March 2, 2014 at 6:45 am #

        Joking about anything is fine…. trying to control speech is futile. Maybe stop being so offended by everything that you hear …

        I swear to god. People treat being offended like its some fucking right that you have to never hear something you don’t like. Fuck right off.

      • Little Miss Obvious March 2, 2014 at 7:13 am #

        If you think about the idea of raping children, and you think about it seriously with no element of absurdity or surrealism, I pity you. That’s a sick thought. Thinking about raping children in a serious tone is sick.

        People laugh to avoid pain, we joke about things that scare us so that we don’t fee afraid.

        Remember all those ‘priest/altar boy’ jokes? Some of those were funny.

  22. Johnson March 1, 2014 at 7:07 am #

    Sorry, whats the problem? This was meant to be a private conversation. If only the author could have taken an unbiased view on this. This is the kind of stuff guys sometimes joke about. Obviously nobody is going through with it. 1: all people fantasize, its not illegal. 2: does it really offend you people to know that someone is talking behind your back, essentially talking about your good looks. Everyone has to be so politically correct nowadays, and its getting out of hand. I’m utterly surprised that i havent read any comments of people not caring. You all seem oh so shocked but %60 of guys might make the same joke, or a similar wager. What is the big deal. This isnt even rape talk, its fantasy.
    As long as nobody has gotten raped, this conversation should have stayed private. For fucks sake, guys cant enjoy a good laugh together anymore?

    • Auntie Alias March 1, 2014 at 4:13 pm #

      These guys were pissed off that their candidate for president didn’t win. “Someone punish her with their shaft” is no joke. Their conversation is laced with hostility. And this:

      “the “tri-fluvienne” [nickname for someone from Trois-Rivières, Québec] president will suck me off in her office chair and after I will fuck her in the ass on Pat [Marquis]‘s desk”

      That’s all about degradation and punishment. It’s not about sexual desire and they don’t mention her good looks. You’re projecting something that wasn’t stated in an effort to downplay their intent. I seriously doubt 60% of men talk about raping women to punish them.

      “For fucks sake, guys cant enjoy a good laugh together anymore?”

      If you think musing about rape is funny, you’re part of the problem.

      • Kiersten March 1, 2014 at 10:06 pm #

        You hit the nail on the head, Auntie Alias.

      • Auntie Alias March 1, 2014 at 11:19 pm #

        Thanks, Kiersten!

      • memorableblogtitle March 1, 2014 at 11:23 pm #

        Excellent comment, and I agree.

      • Little Miss Obvious March 2, 2014 at 5:22 am #

        1 – the guys weren’t talking about rape, if so it would be illegal and they would have been arrested
        2 – they are rudely expressing their feelings after losing in fake politics. It’s rude and pornographic, pornography degrades women?

      • DysthymiaBree March 2, 2014 at 7:27 am #

        Well said.

      • Lexy Denman March 2, 2014 at 3:07 pm #

        You managed to sum up my own thoughts on this better than I could have done. I’ve heard plenty of men (and women!) casually joke about the things they’d like to do with someone or other in ways that are not particularly offensive or degrading, but the kind of language used by these individuals is absolutely disgusting.

  23. Lynette d'Arty-Cross March 1, 2014 at 9:28 am #

    Unbelievable! She should be suing them!

    • JAWZ March 1, 2014 at 8:26 pm #

      Suing them for what? Hurt feelings?

      • Little Miss Obvious March 2, 2014 at 7:14 am #

        For letting her win the election so easily

  24. sarahcspencer March 1, 2014 at 1:13 pm #

    This is so sad. Rape culture is so prevalent on universities. Right now, my university is one of several being federally investigated for how the administration has handled past sexual assault allegations. The university often fails to do much in regards to athletes who commit sexual assault. It’s like they are untouchable because the uni gets too much money off of them. They’re walking cash signs that much be protected even when they add to the rape culture on campus.

    • Little Miss Obvious March 2, 2014 at 5:17 am #

      How does that equate to rape culture? Does the university give them extra credit for raping?

      I don’t think you understand words in English.

      • sarahcspencer March 2, 2014 at 5:07 pm #

        Little Miss Obvious,

        First, stick to the subject instead of attacking my language.

        Second, don’t be ridiculous. The uni isn’t giving out extra credit for rape. They are letting it go unpunished. Sweeping rape under the rug and not addressing the issue directly increases the prevalence of rape culture.

    • Little Miss Obvious March 2, 2014 at 5:19 am #

      If the university was creating ‘rape culture’ ALL MALE STUDENTS would be able to rape without issue. The fact that you’re talking about the star athletes, a small percentage of the student population, destroys your own argument.

      It’s not normal. It’s only in special cases.

      Seriously.

      Seriously.

      *sigh*

      • sarahcspencer March 2, 2014 at 5:14 pm #

        Little Miss Obvious,

        My comment singled out a specific group on campus. But that doesn’t mean that my argument is less valid.

        By not punishing ‘star athletes’ who commit sexual assault, the university does in fact say something about rape culture. This small percentage of athletes are held in high regards to all. Public image is very important. When rape committed by an athlete on campus goes unpunished, those who follow the athlete are being told they are untouchable.

        This attitude of ‘I’m untouchable’ has the ability to transfer to others. Whether male or female, athlete or non-athlete. If one student can get away with it, then why not all?

        I singled out athletes, because the federal case pertains to them. There are plenty of cases where non-athletes are not punished either. Last I knew you weren’t aware of what uni I attend, so I don’t know that you can speak on what is ‘normal’ here.

  25. sula362 March 1, 2014 at 2:04 pm #

    shocking. What is it about certain men that they react like this, plus encourage each other?
    It is terrible, and not what I would expect in a country like Canada. Those students should be disciplined

    • Little Miss Obvious March 2, 2014 at 5:16 am #

      Yeah, we should totally police everything people say in Canada. Like…North Korea.

      Feminist logic facepalm.

      • sula362 March 2, 2014 at 8:18 am #

        yeah, you are so right. Hey I think the NSA probably already are, so no problem there.

      • sarahcspencer March 2, 2014 at 5:16 pm #

        How do you get from sula302 saying they should be disciplined to police everything people say?

  26. George Dupuis March 1, 2014 at 2:52 pm #

    Haha ill buy you a 24 pack if you fuck her haha

  27. apoltical March 1, 2014 at 4:55 pm #

    For those of you male rape-apologists in the comments, speak for yourselves.

    If this is what you consider funny, then your sense of humor is malformed and your capacity for self-reflection and growth stunted and pitiful. I’m aghast that anyone could consider this casual discussion of submitting someone to sexual violence permissible, let alone funny.

    I love the women in my life, and when you “joke” about these things you make the world less safe for them and every other woman. If you cannot control your mouths and genitals, get help. But don’t try to implicate me and every other man with a working frontal lobe in your depravity.

    • r r March 1, 2014 at 6:36 pm #

      faggot

    • memorableblogtitle March 1, 2014 at 11:25 pm #

      Well said, apolitical.

  28. apoltical March 1, 2014 at 4:56 pm #

    For those of you male rape-apologists in the comments, speak for yourselves.

    If this is what you consider funny, then your sense of humor is malformed and your capacity for self-reflection and growth stunted and pitiful. I’m aghast that anyone could consider this casual discussion of submitting someone to sexual violence permissible, let alone funny.

    I love the women in my life, and when you “joke” about these things you make the world less safe for them and every other woman. If you cannot control your mouths and genitals, get help. But don’t try to implicate me and every other man with a working frontal lobe in your depravity.

    • Catherine March 1, 2014 at 5:47 pm #

      For all those who are frustrated with rape culture, please sign our petition to discourage the celebration of Robin Thicke at the upcoming Canadian JUNO awards: https://www.change.org/en-CA/petitions/juno-awards-remove-robin-thicke-from-the-juno-nominations-and-cancel-his-scheduled-performance-at-the-awards-show

      • Auntie Alias March 1, 2014 at 6:20 pm #

        Thank you, Catherine. Done.

    • Sarah Waters March 1, 2014 at 9:41 pm #

      You NOT speak for all women when you spread your bull about rape culture. There is no such thing it’s just something young white women have made up to play the victim. I’m a female myself but I actually have a sense of humour and a brain for that matter. You obviously have no idea what real feminism is as you’re spouting the rubbish that has been taught to you by other bitter individuals. Why do you hate men so much? We should be striving for equality all round not just female privilege because that’s all there is at the moment. When you’ve grown up and had some life experience you will understand that life doesn’t revolve around your silly little idea of all men being evil.

      • apoltical March 2, 2014 at 1:49 am #

        I am male…

      • jadeloud March 2, 2014 at 4:44 am #

        It undermines your ‘argument’ to decry that others don’t speak for all women, and then propose absolutes such as “there is no such thing” as rape culture. Additionally, definitions of “real feminism” preclude any critical examination of whatever you think that entails, and limit your understanding of feminist concepts. There is no “real feminism.” Feminism is as diverse as women* are, and has changed and multiplied drastically over time. Don’t try to reduce it; you’re only preventing yourself from looking at things complexly.
        But in response, conversations about rape culture don’t imply that all men are evil or worthy of hatred. They analyse the language commonly used by our current society, from instances of rape to sexually charged conversations like the one above, and have observed CLEAR. OBVIOUS. BLATANT. normalization and trivialization of sexual violence, either towards women or more generally in situations of masculine power (for example, exemplar performance in sports/video games).
        That being said you sound an awful lot like a troll.

      • Little Miss Obvious March 2, 2014 at 5:07 am #

        YES! Sarah Waters can think for herself and can tell the difference between a rude asshole and a rapist.

      • Little Miss Obvious March 2, 2014 at 5:10 am #

        jadecloud:

        She was responding to the original ‘you do not speak for all males’ comment by apoltical. I guess your statement applies to his argument as well.

        So, you’re comfortable regurgitating what you learned in Women’s Studies? YOu understand that academia is a business right?

        There are such things as rape culture: Some Middle Eastern cultures, some Asian cultures etc.

        Not the West. Rapists are not welcome here and pretending they are makes people dislike you.

      • jadeloud March 2, 2014 at 6:00 am #

        You’re right; I should’ve paid more attention to the comment thread. I still think my points stand, though, and they’re definitely not simple regurgitation from Women’s Studies. There’s no way of proving to what degree I’ve studied and discussed and thought about social justice and other cultural theories, and you’re not proposing any sort of counter-argument, so think what you want in that regard.
        In terms of “Rapists [not being] welcome here” : our society at large disapproves of the popular conception of rape, yes. Rapists, when they are actually recognized, are abhorred. Overall, though, the (mis)understanding of what constitutes sexual violence, and the gendered stereotypes permeating our culture, result in people getting away with it WAY, WAY too often. This situation is a prime example of both: the question of whether “Someone punish her with their shaft” is sexually violent, and the ‘boys will be boys’ and ‘whining/attention-seeking woman’ stereotypes, amongst others that are being thrown around.

      • Little Miss Obvious March 2, 2014 at 5:14 am #

        Oh, and jadecloud, btw…we also live in an ‘overly romanticized culture’, where men are made to feel inferior because they cannot, EVER completely fulfill a woman’s romantic ideals as defined by Hollywood, Reality TV and other corporate entities that FEED ON THE FEMALE DOLLAR.

        Now consider all the language and conversation that surrounds women’s fantastical romantic urges. Is the problem getting worse or better?

        The most effective rapists are romantics, think about that.

      • jadeloud March 2, 2014 at 6:08 am #

        I’m hesitant to address this ‘argument’ because I’m not entirely sure how the “romantic ideals” Hollywood imposes on men are relevant to the current conversation. Also, I can’t think of any “language and conversation that surrounds women’s fantastical romantic urges.” What I’m getting is that men feel inadequate in the face of media’s portrayal of what women… expect? or what men think they expect?… of male romantic partners. I’ll expand on that and suggest that the vast majority of heterosexual romantic/sexual expectation, as produced by media, is ridiculous and makes most people feel inadequate. But again, what’s your point?

      • Little Miss Obvious March 2, 2014 at 7:31 am #

        The argument is that fantasy and reality are completely separate. I can fantasize, even joke about killing someone and not be a murderer. I laced the argument with satire, because like you said, mainstream romantic propaganda is everywhere, and I don’t hear feminists fighting that in any way. It’s institutionalized and no one cares. Millions of little girls are being lied to, convinced that for every little princess there is a prince, and that ultimately is disappointing on the deepest emotional level possible. It also leads women to fall for ‘con men’ and ‘actors’ who exploit those fantasies like a master thief with a blueprint of the bank.

        Btw, the way you define rape culture leads me to think we also live in a ‘cancer culture’ because we don’t understand it completely. Also an ‘Alzheimer’s culture’, ‘depression culture’, ‘road accident culture’, ‘unwanted pregnancy culture’, ‘abortion culture’…

        At some point defining things, creating new language, labels and such becomes a waste of time, thoughts, discourse and energy and leads to disinformation. Diluting our language with ‘new’ erodes the old.

        There is no feminist revelation that is going to end rape. Only make things more confusing, more alienating and less on point by viewing things from multiple angles, hypothetical and quantic angles.

        There are two human genders, male and female…this is in nature and is science. There are variations…TG, different orientation, gay, bi etc, different expressions and identities on psychological levels.

        But what is real, is that nature has a certain design, and that design evolves. The more language you throw at reality the muddier it gets.

        And that’s academia’s specialty.

        Like people have said, the word ‘rape’ is becoming diluted by the term ‘rape culture’.

        Rape now means ‘A woman is uncomfortable’.

        So ‘I got raped’ might one day mean ‘A guy is making me unhappy’ to some people.

        Aaaaand we’re back in 1950.

      • Kiersten March 3, 2014 at 2:45 am #

        You obviously have no idea what real feminism is if you think that all feminists hate men…

  29. BarbieD March 1, 2014 at 6:04 pm #

    Very strange conversation, and I wouldn’t defend anything they said—in fact I think what they said was reprehensible. But I have two concerns with this article.

    (1) I despise this term “rape culture”—from my observation it’s basically a fungible term that can be applied any time a guy talks sexually about a girl. It’s devoid of any consistent objective meaning. Rape, on the other hand, has a very specific meaning: non-consensual sexual intercourse or sexual touching. It’s a very serious terms with legal connotations; it should not be thrown around loosey-goosey. Nothing in this conversation overtly advocates rape, except arguably the statement “punish her with your shaft”. But this is still ambiguous, and it is far from clear that he was advocating rape.

    (2) Do you honestly think females don’t talk sexually about males in their private conversations? If you go snooping on people’s conversations, I suspect you would have a few surprises. The metaphors and words may be different, but these are just cosmetic differences—the essence is the same. I would offer a counter-question: would you equally criticize a female for using the same or similar terms about a male in their private conversations?

    • Auntie Alias March 1, 2014 at 8:36 pm #

      I have never, ever heard women talk about wanting to be sexually violent towards men.

      Wikipedia has a reasonable definition: “Rape culture is a concept that links rape and sexual violence to the culture of a society and in which prevalent attitudes and practices normalize, excuse, tolerate, and even condone rape. Examples of behaviors commonly associated with rape culture include victim blaming, sexual objectification, and trivializing rape.”

      And here you are making excuses for this behaviour.

      • BarbieD March 1, 2014 at 8:56 pm #

        I see you conveniently removed the following paragraph: “Although the concept of rape culture is used in feminist academia, there is disagreement over what defines a rape culture and to what degree a given society meets the criteria to be considered a rape culture.”

        There remain important questions regarding the outer parameters of the term and specific criteria needed for something to fall under the category of “rape culture”. From my experience, it’s simply a blanket concept used by feminists to stigmatize men who say things sexually demeaning to women. Rape-advocacy is not an strict requirement. In fact, there does not even need to be a nexus between what a guy says and rape.

        This article is a perfect example of the looseness of the term.

        Where did I make excuses for what they said? Please quote me. In fact, I said exactly the opposite—-namely that it was reprehensible. I would also add offensive, degrading and demeaning. But Was it advocating rape? I’m not so sure. And personally I would be extremely cautious before I stigmatized somebody with the accusation of condoning rape. I would urge moderation and avoidance of hyperbole by the anti-rape movement. It discredits your entire campaign.

      • Auntie Alias March 1, 2014 at 11:10 pm #

        Rape culture is more than men saying sexually demeaning things about women. However, you persist in going back to that.

        Men may be the ones who primarily uphold rape culture but women perpetuate it as well. In particular, I’m thinking of victim-blaming. Notorious rape cases, like the one in Steubenville, Ohio or with Rehtaeh Parsons were followed by the victim being bombarded by slut-shaming over social media and many of the participants were girls. I’ve engaged online with several intelligent adult women who were shameless and vicious victim-blamers.

        The media and online community are full of victim-blaming and “common sense” safety lectures aimed at girls and women. Don’t drink, don’t go out alone at night, don’t wear revealing clothing, and don’t flirt because if you do any of those things and get raped, IT’S ALL YOUR FAULT. Lately there’s been a flood of false accusation propaganda designed to cast doubt on all victims who report being raped and it’s having a chilling effect.

        Too often police don’t believe victims. Judges have made demeaning comments to victims in court after convicting the offenders. The sum total of all that is it creates an atmosphere where women are fearful of going to the police and so rapists get a free pass to rape some more. Is it any wonder prosecution and conviction rates are so low?

        Dismissing the seriousness of the conversation in the article is contributing to rape culture. It was angry and violent (despite the lulz) and it doesn’t matter whether they intended to act on it. That kind of mindset is dangerous because sometimes men do rape women to punish them. It’s the ultimate way to humiliate and harm someone and that’s exactly what the motive was in the conversaton.

        As for your absurd claim that women talk the same way about men, that was more telling. You’re trying to deflect blame away from these guys and that’s making excuses for them.

      • BarbieD March 2, 2014 at 12:58 am #

        You seriously need to have your head examined.

        I am contributing to “rape culture” by saying that very term is not well-defined?

        And I’m deflecting blame from these individuals by calling their comments “reprehensible, offensive, demeaning and degrading”?

        Guys say bad things, and they should be criticized for doing so. In fact, I would support their resignations. But they shouldn’t be blamed for all the bad things that happen to women in society.

        It seems like anybody who disagrees with your approach to handling this situation is automatically smeared as a rape-apologist. You need to get a grip, seriously.

      • Auntie Alias March 2, 2014 at 2:36 am #

        If you can’t see the connection between talking about sexual violence and committing sexual violence, you are in deep denial.

        I never once mentioned the term rape apologist but now that you mention it, you are one.

      • BarbieD March 2, 2014 at 2:45 am #

        If you read carefully, which you have made clear that you do not, I said that one statement in the conversation may have advocated rape: “punish her with your shaft”. However, I would still say it is far from clear: the statement is ambiguous as to consent. The rest of the statements are merely offensive and degrading.

        None of that changes the fact that “rape culture” is an overly used and poorly defined term, which you tacitly admitted by linking to a Wikipedia article with the same assessment.

        And your logic, it appears, is disintegrating into utter shambles now with this statement “now that you mention it, you are one”, which makes absolutely no sense. Like I said, get a grip lady.

      • Auntie Alias March 2, 2014 at 3:46 am #

        “the statement is ambiguous as to consent.”

        “Punish her with your shaft” is talking about rape. There’s nothing ambiguous about it except in the minds of people determined to excuse sexual violence.

        “Rape, on the other hand, has a very specific meaning: non-consensual sexual intercourse or sexual touching. It’s a very serious terms with legal connotations; it should not be thrown around loosey-goosey.”

        Translation: Those poor menz might have their lives ruined by false accusations and to hell with their victims. They’re probably lying or deserved it, right?

        You have the rape apologia tactics down pat. Thanks a lot for your contributions to the rape epidemic.

      • BarbieD March 2, 2014 at 4:14 am #

        you are taking issue with my assertion that the word ‘rape’ is a serious term with legal connotations? What is incorrect about that statement? This proves my point that you are just hurling this word around loosely.

      • Auntie Alias March 3, 2014 at 1:56 am #

        No one is accusing anyone of rape. You’re deflecting.

    • BarbieD March 2, 2014 at 1:12 am #

      And if you think no woman has ever said something sexually violent about a man—well the naivete of that speaks for itself.

      • Little Miss Obvious March 2, 2014 at 5:04 am #

        Thank you BarbieD

        Auntie Alias: 1 – PLease show me the victim(s) of this conversation. The girl in question was defamed behind her back, and will now actually win whatever election she was running for as a result. Seems like she benefits from this situation despite being shit-talked behind her back.

        2 – Women deride guys ALL THE TIME. None of your female friends have ever joked about ‘chopping off his dick’? That’s heard regularly where I’m from. That or ‘ He probably takes it in the ass’.

        Your double standard and hypocrisy actually HARMS women by encouraging self-destructive attitudes of helplessness and despair.

      • Auntie Alias March 2, 2014 at 10:08 am #

        Little Mister Obvious,

        1 – The women at U of Ottawa are the victims of that conversation. It’s unsettling to find out that men who walk among them have such vile views of women that their idea of comeuppance is revenge rape. Anne Marie Roy already won the election so they wanted to punish her.

        2 – No woman I know has ever threatened to mutilate a man or made derisive comments about his sexuality.

        3 – You are a misogynist.

  30. AMM March 1, 2014 at 7:31 pm #

    Being USAan, I’m only familiar with US law, and I believe these guys would have no grounds to sue in the USA. Could anyone who actually knows Canadian law tell us whether (a) truth is an absolute defense to libel in Canada? And (b) what the law actually is on “breach of privacy,” assuming there is such a tort (or crime?) in Canadian law? (I’m fairly confident that the commenters who have talked about it in this thread don’t know what they’re talking about.)

    BTW, the comments thread here is a sterling illustration of Lewis’s Law. Not to mention rape culture. I suggest anyone who links to this article include a separate trigger warning for the comments.

    • JAWZ March 1, 2014 at 8:47 pm #

      (a) Generally: yes in a court of law. Also applies to honest belief in the truth of a statement. Sometimes no if in front of a administrative body like a Human Rights Tribunal. (b) There is no general tort for “breach of privacy” at common law. However, depending on the exact case/fact pattern it has been emerging in our courts. Only recently have Canadian courts established an actual tort relating to a privacy breach called “intrusion upon seclusion” (borrowed from USA). However, it was brought forward in the face of an extreme violation of privacy (repeatedly accessing someone’s bank information over a period of years) and thus will likely have a very high threshold test.

    • Roxanne Guérin March 1, 2014 at 9:17 pm #

      We shared on ”Je suis Indestructible” https://www.facebook.com/jesuisindestructible It’s a project to help rape survivors.

    • dollyrf March 1, 2014 at 10:18 pm #

      Lyndsey said it best… I don’t think these guys can sue her on any grounds. They are wasting their time. Facebook is not private, defamation is not applicable when what is said is the truth, and if they are really that much offended by her making this conversation public…going to court with this is not going to hide it any more… it just went national now. Think about what you say, and keep your dirty mind in your bedroom, jerks!

  31. Jessica March 1, 2014 at 7:41 pm #

    May this post rise to the top of all Google searches for their names.

  32. syrens March 1, 2014 at 8:52 pm #

    Reblogged this on syrens and commented:
    Again and again and again.

  33. Christo March 1, 2014 at 9:16 pm #

    Thanks for sharing. There’s really nothing to add or to say that makes this acceptable. It’s raw hate and spoken violence cloaked in a casual conversation. I hope a police-report was filed. I can’t believe these people are university-educated and future social-workers.

  34. Earthling March 1, 2014 at 9:44 pm #

    What an ignorant bunch of dipshits. As if that weren’t enough…”quelle que par?” “Je vous avertit?” Given the quality of their written French I’m surprised they passed Sécondaire 2, let alone met U of O entrance standards.

  35. Remi March 1, 2014 at 10:03 pm #

    There’s no such thing as Rape culture. There’s just feminists Victimisation culture. It’s just stupid guys saying stupid things in a mean way. Stop seeing your selves as victims all the time. you see rape and misogyny everywhere. I wonder if it’s not a pathology sometimes.

    • Auntie Alias March 1, 2014 at 11:13 pm #

      Thanks for the misogyny demonstration.

      • AMM March 2, 2014 at 1:54 pm #

        Does this [Remi’s comment] count as mansplaining (as well as misogynistic & an example of rape culture)?

      • Auntie Alias March 2, 2014 at 3:17 pm #

        I wouldn’t call it mansplaining; it’s more like outright denial.

  36. literalnut March 2, 2014 at 1:28 am #

    I love this blog so much.

  37. Auntie Alias March 2, 2014 at 2:42 am #

    University of Ottawa President Allan Rock: “The comments demonstrate attitudes about women and sexual aggression that have no place on campus, or anywhere else in Canadian society.”
    http://www.uottawa.ca/media/media-release-2929.html

    Reportedly, Alex Marquis and Alexandre Larochelle have resigned from their positions.
    https://www.facebook.com/pages/UOttawa-Students-demand-Resignation-of-Pat-Marquis-and-Associates/228967907308628?ref=stream

    • Just so you know March 2, 2014 at 4:11 am #

      Pat resigned from his position as he received a malicious message telling him to commit suicide. I do not condone rape culture however neither do I condone encouragement of suicide. Encouraging people who have done wrongly to kill themselves is no way to get the point across.

      This has escalated to such high levels that people need to take a step back and realize, we are only human. Humans can be pushed and punished to a certain limit. This is not a future we want our society to become.

      • Auntie Alias March 2, 2014 at 10:17 am #

        @Just so you know, It chills me to the bone when people tell others online to kill themselves. It’s very creepy and violent. I agree it’s not the way to get the point across. People should have let things run their course.

        It’s especially unfortunate because now it gives Marquis a chance to paint himself as a victim.

  38. susan kelly March 2, 2014 at 3:32 am #

    The level of stupidity demonstrated by these men, firstly by the ugliness of their thoughts, and secondly by writing them down, calls into question, again, the standards required to enter a University in Canada in 2014. The written remarks would be considered purient if authored by a group of thirteen year olds. At this this age, and regarding a University matter, they appear criminally obscene. That the men in question are blowing the old dog whistle, we’ll sue the person in question for merely exposing their own words, when they should be apologising to that person, in writing, ( it is a wise and good thing to write down an apology when one is called for) is cowardly and shameful. I think the men should have, at the v least, their emails shipped home to Mama and any sisters or neices they might have, to explain, or rather, justify their wholesome words and attitude. As to the University? Is it in their best interest to be so publicly distinguished by their alumnae? I don’t think so. I would volunteer them entry at another institution, as silent observers at a woman’s rape center.

  39. Little Miss Obvious March 2, 2014 at 4:44 am #

    Saying that this is evidence of “Rape Culture” is like saying that NAMBLA is evidence of ‘Pedophile Culture’. — Actually it’s not, because NAMBLA is actual pedophiles having conversations and these douches from U of O are just being verbally abusive in their locker room-type bravado and yes, misogynist/sexist. . THEY AREN’T SUGGESTING RAPE IN ANY WAY – THANK YOU AUTHOR FOR TAKING THE LIBERTY, CREATING THE CRIME AND ACCUSING REAL HUMAN BEINGS OF IT. Recalls Salem witch trials.

    The problem with your logic is that you equate any aggression as the worst possible aggression. You remind me of those people in Russia who jump onto slowly moving cars to fake accidents and thus collect insurance money. But wtf are you collecting? Pity? Self-pity? Attention? Web traffic? Guys — sorry, People — say shitty things every day. Women make similar threats to their friends when they’re angry. It’s called irrational human behavior and is VERY DIFFERENT THAN ACTUAL CRIMES AND DOESN’T MERIT THE PUBLIC SLANDER YOU ARE GUILTY OF (this is an actual crime btw).

    Your headline is a lie, you aren’t making any logical arguments regarding feminism, or patriarchy or making any reason for a ‘call-to’arms’. This is why people laugh and deride feminists. Not patriarchy nor sexism. Because you simply and plainly, MAKE SHIT UP FOR ATTENTION.

    How can you expect to be taken seriously when you invent stories to assert your relevance? You take private conversation, put it under a microscope, identify the flaws and unfair statements that are really an individual’s rotten character highlighted, and LEAP to the conclusion that it is IN SOME WAY RELATE TO THE ACTUAL, PHYSICAL ATTACK ON A WOMAN’S SEXUALITY. You are not living in reality. Imagining killing someone, talking about killing someone, and actually killing someone are NOWHERE NEAR THE SAME LEVEL OF SEVERITY. So I used to wish my ex was dead, and told some of my friends once – DOES THAT MAKE ME A MURDERER?

    This is what us ‘normal’ people see when we come across an article like this:
    1 – Some shitty things that some stupid people (men) said or did. 2 – A FEMINIST (it’s always a feminist) claiming that this is evidence of some agreed upon NORMALIZATION OF HER GREATEST FEAR. 3 – Said feminist publicly attacking the individuals in question and alluding to lies or judgement of their character that she is in NO PLACE TO DO (other than the self-appointed superiority in her mind). 4 – A bunch of weak females, who can’t form their own opinions, blindly agreeing and egging the feminist on.

    FEMINISM: How women turn the world against women,

    If there is any bias AGAINST women left in the Western Hemisphere it is CAUSED by self proclaimed ‘feminists’ who are disconnected from reality and logic in such a way that they perpetuate the anger they feel from being marginalized. Thankfully, many of us in the West are intelligent enough to focus that bias on INDIVIDUAL FEMINISTS WHO ARE GUILTY OF THIS ANTI-SOCIAL BEHAVIOR.

    The rest of us men and women get along just fine when we accept that we are different yet equal in value.

    If there really is a rape culture in the West, please explain, WHY DO THEY PUT RAPISTS IN SEPARATE AREAS OF PRISONS FOR THEIR PHYSICAL SAFETY?

    CRIMINALS hate rapists, that’s your ‘rape culture’.

    — MIC DROP —

  40. daisies4gail March 2, 2014 at 5:14 am #

    I am not a student…however, I have read the comments, and I am offended that men who are in positions of responsibility are without any moral fiber. What is the difference between first degree murder and second degree murder….it is very simple…INTENT TO COMMIT MURDER. I am not calling them murderers…however, when it comes to rape…they spoke at length as to what they would do to Ms Roy. It is not as though, one of them made a crude remark and his friends corrected and objected to the remark. Not one of them said, :Hey fellas, knock it off”: Not one of them had courage enough to stand up to this foul mouthed idiot. You know what they say about who your friends are…`Bad association spoils useful habits.: Just the same, I believe that you should stand for something or you will fall for anything. Fellas, you spoke louder than your buddies…you wanted to be heard by them, you even gave them your endorsement. You spoke of the Who, What, When, Where and the Why. I believe that with intent, you have indicated rape… and you have all been implicated,, because none of you had the courage to stand up and say differently. You are the pariah that we are still trying to educate. I am certain, you have made your parents and sisters, mothers, wives, daughters….proud. I would like to see each of you charged with intent to commit rape. I can hardly wait until such a time when this will be dealt with, once and for all. Until then, I would remind you to keep your stinkin thinkin to yourselves. Why throw pearls before swine. They deserve the education that one would receive in one of our higher learning institutions…caged with other sexual deviants. To Ms. Roy and all the other women, I would encourage you to report this to the authorities…You have that right.

Trackbacks/Pingbacks

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