I don’t have to tell you that Steubenville is all over the news.
I don’t have to tell you that it’s a fucking joke that Trent Mays and Ma’lik Richmond, the two teenagers convicted of raping a sixteen year old girl, were only sentenced to a combined three years in juvenile prison. Each will serve a year for the rape itself; Mays will serve an additional year for “illegal use of a minor in nudity-oriented material.”
I probably don’t even have to tell you that the media treatment of this trial has been a perfect, if utterly sickening, example of rape culture, with its focus on how difficult and painful this event has been for the rapists who raped a sixteen year old girl then bragged about it on social media.
And I almost certainly don’t have to tell you that the world is full of seemingly nice, normal people who want to go to bat for the convicted rapists. I’m quite sure that you already know about the victim-blaming that’s been happening since this case first came to light. You know about the fact that people have actually come out and said that the real lesson to be learned here is that we need to be more careful with social media (i.e. go ahead and rape but make sure you don’t get caught). You already know that people seem to think that being a sports star and having a good academic record should somehow make up for the fact that you are a rapist.
I don’t have to tell you any of that because it’s all par for the course.
What I do want to tell you is that you need to stop using the “wives, sisters, daughters” argument when you are talking to people defending the Steubenville rapists. Or any rapists. Or anyone who commits any kind of crime, violent or otherwise, against a woman.
In case you’re unfamiliar with this line of rhetoric, it’s the one that goes like this:
You should stop defending the rapists and start caring about the victim. Imagine if she was your sister, or your daughter, or your wife. Imagine how badly you would feel if this happened to a woman that you cared about.
Framing the issue this way for rape apologists can seem useful. I totally get that. It feels like you’re humanizing the victim and making the event more relatable, more sympathetic to the person you’re arguing with.
You know what, though? Saying these things is not helpful; in fact, it’s not even helping to humanize the victim. What you are actually doing is perpetuating rape culture by advancing the idea that a woman is only valuable in so much as she is loved or valued by a man.
The Steubenville rape victim was certainly someone’s daughter. She may have been someone’s sister. Someday she might even be someone’s wife. But these are not the reasons why raping her was wrong. This rape, and any rape, was wrong because women are people. Women are people, rape is wrong, and no one should ever be raped. End of story.
The “wives, sisters, daughters” line of argument comes up all the fucking time. President Obama even used it in his State of the Union address this year, saying,
“We know our economy is stronger when our wives, mothers, and daughters can live their lives free from discrimination in the workplace, and free from the fear of domestic violence.”
This device, which Obama has used on more than one occasion, is reductive as hell. It defines women by their relationships to other people, rather than as people themselves. It says that women are only important when they are married to, have given birth to, or have been fathered by other people. It says that women are only important because of who they belong to.
Women are not possessions.
Women are people.
I seriously cannot believe that I have to say this in 2013.
On top of all of this, I want you to think of a few other implications this rhetorical device has. For one thing, what does it say about the women who aren’t anyone’s wife, mother or daughter? What does it say about the kids who are stuck in the foster system, the kids who are shuffled from one set of foster parents to another or else living in a group home? What does it say about the little girls whose mothers surrender them, willingly or not, to the state? What does it say about the people who turn their back on their biological families for one reason or another?
That they deserve to be raped? That they are not worthy of protection? That they are not deserving of sympathy, empathy or love?
And when we frame all women as being someone’s wife, mother or daughter, what are we teaching young girls?
We are teaching them that in order to have the law on their side, they need to be loved by men. That they need to make themselves attractive and appealing to men in order to be worthy of protection. That their lives and their bodily integrity are valueless except for how they relate to the men they know.
The truth is that I am someone’s wife. I am also someone’s mother. I am someone’s daughter, and someone’s sister. But those are not the things that define me, or make me valuable in this world. Those are not the reasons that I should be able to live a life free from rape, sexual assault or any kind of violent crime.
I have value because I am a person. Full stop. End of argument. This isn’t even a discussion that we should be having.
So please, let’s start teaching that fact to the young women in our lives. Teach them that you love, honour and value them because of who they are. Teach them that they should expect to be treated with integrity because it’s a basic human right. Teach them that they do not deserve to be raped because no one ever, ever, ever deserves to be raped.
Above all, teach them that they are people, too.
The Belle Jar 
Oh, and you don’t feel “badly.” You feel bad. If you “feel badly,” it implies you have some sort of numbness or insensitivity to pain. That’s a common mistake among poor writers, though.
Yeah! Brava!
I think you’re right on MOST of what you said. Everything you said about women being people and how its worded is all right. My only issue was when you said that nobody deserves to get raped. I think thats wrong. Rapists deserve to get raped. They deserve to be made into the little playthings of others in prision. They deserve to be exploited in every way possible as close to the one(s) they hurt. I’ll admit this is my opinion, but very few ever argue.
We are all people and we all deserve to feel safe in our own skin. We all should have the right to walk down the street in a bathing suit and not worry about whether or not someone is going to physically assault us. Rape isn’t about sex, it’s about control. “I was tempted\provoked\teased (insert your own excuse here) by her clothing.” is only a bad excuse. There is no excuse for rape. NONE. Period. Men walk around shirtless all of the time, yet they don’t worry about women raping them. If a woman wears even slightly provocative clothing, the media would no doubt say she deserved to be raped. It’s time we all made our way into this century and learned that things like rape, abuse and assault are carried out by bullies, not good students, good mothers, good fathers or good athletes. Rape is a crime based in control. Only bullies rape and by letting them get away with it, it only cements their belief that what they did was within the boundaries of the law.
Damn, calm down. It’s usually not a good idea to blog when you’re on your period.
Wow, look! The reason why we still have to talk about this shit! A blatant misogynist! The “on your period” thing is not only irrelevant but immature…come back when you have something educated to say.
I agree with you completely on the disgusting coverage of this trial, the sentence, and on the fact that the reason not to rape is because every person has their worth simply because they are a person on equal footing with others.
However, the whole argument on the words wife/sister/mother seems awfully misguided. I get what you’re trying to say, but it’s rather alienating. No one said that it’s someone’s status as a loved one that gives her value. There is nothing wrong with stating we care about someone due to the familial relationship that is shared, and doing so does not reduce the value of a person in foster care, or whatever.
Basically, nice sentiment, but this is seeking argument and privilege where there is none.
Very well put. This was my one complaint about this article to! And using relationships to talk about people isn’t only used for women. ‘Father’s and sons’ fought for our country. And humanizing a situation to help prove a point or to help someone terribly mislead doesn’t mean that you don’t believe that your safety shouldn’t be a birth right. It just makes it easier to understand, just like how sometimes the effects of a war don’t make you feel compassion for each victim just by seeing the numbers, but when you hear their stories and see their pain, it is easier to feel empathy and compassion.
Reblogged this on Feminist Cupcake and commented:
A point worth sharing…
great point.
~
I cannot remember
the last time I heard a male victim described
as “someones son, brother, or father”
~
lots of colloquialisms
every day that seem harmless on the surface
actually quite sexist and patronizing.
To be fair, I hear this about victims all the time. “He was someone’s father, father of two” etc. But I agree with you, and I agree with the author. It’s all wrong because someone is a person.
In order to make a valid argument without sounding unintelligent I would avoid cussing, cussing does not sound intelligent.
All women need to stop being so offended over every little thing.
Chanel that energy into helping the millions of women that do not have a choice to voice their opinions or stick up for themselves. OR for the BOYS and girls that are forced into sex trafficking.
I think that, more than women, this needs to be taught to men. From the youngest age their able to being to understand (which is pretty young) until the day they die. Yes, women need to believe it, but men need to understand it. And too many don’t.
The most sensible, empathetic, and resoundingly true statement here is posted by Simon Cohen. I am in total agreement.
What tripe this is. No one is saying that the rapists aren’t to be blamed for what they did. The relatively light sentence they got was given to them because they are juveniles, and our society has this crazy belief that kids shouldn’t be condemned for the rest of the their lives because of a mistake they made before their brains were fully developed. Plus, they may be in lockup until age 21 if the professionals see fit to do so, making their sentence potentially 4 and 5 years, respectively. And the whole too drunk to consent thing was about consent being a defense to rape… thus, if she’s too drunk to remember, she was probably too drunk to consent too. But you probably didn’t know that, and you probably didn’t care, because all you wanted to do was use this tragedy as an excuse to get on your high horse and proselytize about how women get no respect, or whatever.
Whats more, your entire argument is based on a false premise, that people who use the mother daughter wife argument are naturally only talking about women belonging to men. That is just so foolish I don’t even know where to begin. That phrase is used to signify connections to the world, be they male or female (women also have mothers and daughters and wives, btw). It is used to signify the love they shared with people, and how hurt THEY ALL ARE by what happened to their loved one. It is used at trial to make the jury feel connected to the victim, just as they would to their own family (and as a lawyer, I can tell you that when the victim is a man you often hear that “he was a father, a husband, a loving son, etc”). These are typical closing argument techniques, they are not some sexist brainwashing tool.
I don’t know how old you are, but you sound like a 17 juvenile who has no idea about the world, but knows she wants to be a feminist. In fact, that is what’s wrong with this generation of feminism in general. Everyone wants to be on the front lines, pushing the envelope, so all the little feminists in training go crazy anytime ANYTHING sad, victimizing, or even inconvenient happens to a woman (see that ridiculous slutwalk). You guys have it good… there are more of you at every level of education then there are men. It is the young boys that we should be worried about right now, particularly the minority ones, not the young women, who all seem to do better in literally every important measurement of success than their young male peers.
My advice… open your eyes to the world you really live in and get over yourself already.
This response would have made a good, relevant argument, if the writer hadn’t come off as a pretentious prick. Get off YOUR high-horse and attempt an argument that doesn’t mudsling like an angry 5-year-old with a dictionary.
Amen.
I absolutely love this article, this “what if this was your wife, daughter, sister” business is ridiculous. Like only men watch the news because the women are stuck in the kitchen! If the media is only targeting men with the “Wife, daughter, sister” schpeal then they should say “what if it was you” men have …erm…holes…that could be violated.
is a single woman who gives birth to a female offspring not considered a mother? and the offspring not considered a daughter? if this is done at a fertility clinic without actual sex neither can claim these titles because no man is directly involved?
also does being called a husband make you property of a woman, does father or son do the same thing?
in a greater social setting the titles we bestow on individuals as wife or husband… father or mother… son or daughter are nothing more than markers of relationship within a family… i personally hope that one day we can be content with the idea of the two dads or moms. it has taken many generations but the idea of the single mother has been accepted as a social “norm”
ultimately people are just creatures wandering through this world trying to relate to other people the “titles” are merely a guideline to help facilitate this process toward a better understanding of one another. watching out for the abusive, brutal, manipulative, amoral fear mongering individual is more important than getting worked up over some labels that have been around for thousands of years.
thank you for this – i really ‘get’ and appreciate the idea of women not being valued simply by the very nature of them being in relationship with a man and being appreciated and given value to [and prevented from being raped] because they are people! sure there is a lot of value in some of the comments both for and against your post but there was some great truth in it and thankx for speaking out… i read the most incredible letter from a mom to her kids as a response to this whole saga [which you can see here: http://brettfish.wordpress.com/2013/03/19/a-letter-from-magda-pecsenye-to-her-sons-about-stopping-rape%5D – what can’t be done is that we continue to say nothing or do nothing and then all respond emotionally the next time this happens…
I think you make a really good case against using this sort of language when we (general we) are framing a discussion about rape. I don’t like speaking in absolutes though, and I think this topic gets tricky because humanizing and personalizing victims is actually kind of important. I’m talking about victims of any crime, not sexual assault on its own. A crime isn’t just about breaking a law, it’s about damaging a person or a community. If we aren’t teaching our children, or reminding adults in our society that have somehow forgotten, the right language to use or the very fact that they need to see women as people, or the strangers next to them on the bus as human beings, or Steubenville’s ‘Jane Doe’ as a person, we’re going to have a much harder time getting on the same page.
Something I’ve noticed in this case, ironically, is that the rapists have been personalized. I practically know how many tears they’ve shed in court, I know their parents have embraced them. I know their impressive track records and bright futures and I see these rapists as actual people. Not good people, of course, not people undeserving of punishment, but I see them. Jane Doe is hidden for her safety and for her own right to privacy. And rightfully so. She is not humanized, she is not personalized. We have one horrific picture of her, pixelated and blurred as she’s swung about, unconscious, by her rapists. Rape doesn’t have a face here. If the best we as a society can do is hide her and those like her in the protection of our collective shadows and say, “This is a person. You can’t have her, but she is real and she is someone’s daughter and she is just like you when you were 16, she is just like your young neighbor, she is just a child” then maybe that’s what we have to do. The sad truth is that the default, for many, is not empathy. We have to show them, we have to teach them.
It is all about vicarious suffering. When we can feel the pain in our fellow humans, we will stop inflicting it.
“Christ died for our sins” carries this very message – He felt our suffering because He loved us. it never ceases to amaze me that this message is not front and center for Christians. It is the message of Easter. Wish they would spend as much time on this as they do on fighting contraception.
The point are well taken – rape is just despicable in of itself for the pain it inflicts without any reference to relatives. It is pain inflicted on another human being. In our patriarchal system, we have taught men and boys selectively not to see the pain of womankind. Perhaps we need to teach children empathy – I would argue it is more important than reading, writing or arithmetic.
I’ve never questioned this argument before. I appreciate and agree with your take. You’ve made me think.
It’s not really about the “relationship to a man” that defines that analogy at all. It’s relative in the way that the person facing the tragedy is closer. Female or not, it doesn’t matter. It’s just that when tragedy hits someone that you know or are close to, it’s a little easier to feel sympathy. Regardless of gender.
Reblogged this on The Ranting Papizilla and commented:
I agree 100%. Check out this article people, very well written. However, in dealing with the absolute caveman intelligence of the general man today, you have to unfortunately use “devices” to get your point across. Why? Because pimp slapping the ignorant is frowned upon in polite society. Whatever is required to get the point across, whether you need to cluck, moo, neigh, Cave Paint, Mime, or attempt to make them ashamed of themselves by having them think of ladies as though they were their sister or Mom, then so be it. In a perfect world, we would not have to. Since this world is far from perfect, like I said, whatever it takes to reach the cave man brain.
You are a terrible kidder! You don’t agree 1%, let alone “100%.” Women are people, period. That’s the point of the article, which is a far cry from your “whatever it takes.” With your kind of agreement, what does disagreement look like? The only thing 100% about your comments is that they are 100% opposite the point of the author.
Way to go, dude, using the phrase “pimp slapping” in a discussion of rape culture. Best way to prove how much more enlightened you are than the “cavemen” you reference.
SO Rejuvenating to hear this from the mouths of men. THank you. Won a nice laugh from a very down trodden lass. -Cylyn W. (sending FB msg)
Thank you very much. I am a little confused by the negative responses my comment has received though.
I agree with you, Papizilla.
What I got: you don’t throw away the device simply because society should think a certain way. Why? Because not all members of society are capable of such “abstract” thoughts as “women are people.” If that statement doesn’t work, then you follow through with the next appeal: “How would you feel were this happening to your Mother?” Sometimes, you have make the point by way of relationship because, most often, people don’t understand otherwise. Courtesy of the prevalence of stupidity.
As far as pimp-slapping, the euphemism is appropriate in lieu of what many self respecting men would like to do to another dude who has the nerve to treat women in the manner the children from Steubenville did. For some of us, pimp-slapping is too good for the dogs. For some of us, the law doesn’t go far enough.
Luckily, I’m not a dictator. The way only works for some. Sometimes, unfortunately, you have to rely on a device. It’s the same with being a black person. Sometimes, I have to ask white people, “How would you feel if…” It’s a shame, but sometimes, it has to be done, just as Pap said.
“How would you feel if…” I think it’s important you finish that. The logical conclusion I take it to is, “someone treated you like that?” That’s asking someone to empathize. It’s not asking someone to act as if they could almost empathize.
Instead of being defensive about it, why not hear what’s being said. Try incorporating it into your mindset. If you do continue to use this device, fine, but perhaps you won’t finish there. Perhaps you’ll use the metaphor to bring your listener gradually closer to seeing the subject as if she were a person, just like him.
I have had issue over the past year with the concept of “women’s issues.” The definition of rape, pregnancy in the workplace, and birth control have flooded the political and social news. These human issues have all been lumped together as if they only affect women and that it’s their problem. There are many men out there that care about that issues as well because we believe in equality, respect, and basic humanity.
Women and girls are the Primary Victims that is why this is a “women’s issue” and Men are often primarily Secondary victims because they know the victim, except in the case of little boys who are often abused as well.
Women and girls are most often the primary victim – the ones who are assaulted. The secondary victims will include men due to a relationship with the victim. The tertiary victim is also primarily a woman – not necessarily one who knows the victim, but who knows of her existence and can identify with her. The ways she is affected vary from having to endure endless advice on how to stay safe to hyper-vigilance due to the omnipresent threat of rape (whether real or perceived). Those are the victims. Men aren’t really in there except as the occasional victim and the secondary victim status we may assume from time to time. Men occupy a very unique place, both as victim and as beneficiary of rape culture. As a quaternary victim, our relationships are affected -often in ways we can’t understand- but we are also empowered. For us it’s a vastly different experience of rape culture.
Yes, these are human issues, but they’re human issues that have a profound effect on women. Empathy isn’t about making the problem ours, it’s about seeing the problem as if it was ours.
The Belle Jar thank you for sharing your thoughts, logic, passion and even your undeniable anger. I can read it because I too feel it. I agree with some comments here and disagree with others, but what it really ONCE again comes down to is that NO ONE should harass or abuse anyone else. Furthermore, I am physically ill that rape continues to be used in majority of the cases by men to empowered themselves; from domestic relationships to war times. Typically, I am very politically correct but I am literally tired of aligning my logic on rape because its really so much simpler. 1) Convicted rapists and anyone concealing information in regards to rape ought to be served with much much much much more serious sentences. What message is the legal system that is supposed to keep us safe and offer justice sending us all? 2) As for the victim(s), they should be given their space. But what am I talking about, no legal system nor profit driven news corporation will do the right thing – unless, the culture changes. And we all know change is a s.l.o.w process. But a process nevertheless, one that everyone is inadvertently part of, so yes lets allow our young girls to know that they are valued just because they are who they are and lets allow our young boys to feel loved without teaching them that they need to demand it, kick, push or be mean. Let’s not teach them that over-masculinity and aggressiveness is the way to get a girl.
HEAR, HEAR!!!! This is absolutely spot-on. I have always hated this phrase and known it was about ownership/connection to men and felt annoyed but never had the words to express it. THANK YOU.
I am a mother, sister and daughter and DO NOT feel “owned” I agree with Papizilla answer. You need to first give people some picture so they can start thinking what if….. how would I feel then??? A shame that we need to but it is the same with all kinds of crime, war, poverty etc…. You first need to take the people there before they can see the seriousness of the matter or identify with this person. That does not make them any less valuable or someone´s property? I think if you think like that, you have a problem yourself with your identity (if I may say so with respect) It is to make things “hit home”. I myself have been attacked and can vote for it that even though people say “I am sorry” they still cannot identify with it unless it is on home ground. Thank you that I may voice my opinion:)
Reblogged this on Revival of a Sunny Disposition and commented:
Amazing. Read it because it’s worth it.
Please read comments from r/TwoXChromosomes:
I’ve read them, thanks.
You should read ‘Are Women Human?’ by Dorothy Sayers. It perfectly expresses the ideas you are referring to as women being allowed to interact as a human being. Excellent and humorous writing.
I would say though….that this line of defense…the wives, sisters and daughters don’t just relate to men. This is erroneous! Sisters are sisters of women and daughters are daughters of mothers and wives are wives of wives. Something to consider in 2013
Really good point!
Very true. A statement changes depending on how it is perceived. Its about ownership when its deemed that way by the INDIVIDUAL!
I love my daughter, “G”, I am not giving her full name. She is my daughter by truth of genetics. Doesn’t mean that I lord over her. The writer seems to be attacking the idea that the victim is hurt, which is right I think the boys deserved to be tried as adults and sent to “Big Boy” jail. Let them know what its like when no one is there to help you and they are someones “Bitch” (Prison Term). You then go off topic though to target labels, which again are dependent on CONTEXT! Obama, and other individuals; are trying to get the point across that these people are the world to us. That hurting them should bring about feelings of a negative nature. An “Eye For an Eye” or “Do on to others as you would have them do onto you”. I am not religious, but equality for all is what should be sought. “Men” could be seen as a “Label” as well if you take it into light. If daughters, mothers and wives, matter then so do too the labels which men can have placed. I agree with you (Kirsten your point IMO is written clearer and with less prejudiced than the writer of the article. )
The following is directed at the writer of the article in question:
Also abuse of men occurs too, more than you think.
When I was younger my mother, when she wouldn’t get her way; making my Dad stay home and preventing me and him from doing simple things like playing catch, or even go fishing for a few hours, would “Hurt/ injure” her self and then lock the door and call the police. They would come and see my mother hurt, by her own doing, and take my dad away. Is that fair that they wouldn’t consider what I had seen or just take my moms word for it? My dad stayed so I wouldn’t be alone with my mother who would then bring her abuse to me since my father wasn’t there. DOMESTIC VIOLENCE is what should be stopped REGARDLESS OF SEX/CREED/SEXUAL ORIENTATION.
I love my WIFE and I love my DAUGHTER. No one else in the world holds a place in my heart like they do.. Does it mean that I “own” them? No, but that is the word we use to describe the “relationship” we have with one another since we as humans place labels on everything. I am the father of my daughter, does that mean she is objectifying me? No, how would she describe me to someone without using this term? He is a man….. right I am; but I am more than that… Just as women are more than just daughters and sisters, and mothers, and aunts, nieces. They are part of our FAMILY. The great family which we all encompass. Targeting labels is a weak argument. How about removing the complete idolization of retarded individuals; Jersey Shore (Morons); Pop singers/Rap Stars. Who go to create a world more based around sex and material possessions. What is needed more than ever is the revitalization of the school of deep thought. Romanticizing over great works like Plato, Socrates, ancient writings and knowledge which seek to enrich our lives. (To name a few things), and bring back which gives substance to the brain other than repetitive lyrics of horrible music or “Pablum” Movies which are rehashed and packaged as new but are the farthest from the truth. While I admire your drive to make your point known and articulate it in a respectable manner. Not all “Men” think the same, just as women. You also limit yourself too by saying I am not (Your daughter etc) I am a Women…. Well you labeled yourself. The point is we are all human, we all deserve respect, love and admiration. To not be exploited or abused, to just simply enjoy life. Thank you to all who have read this far. Enjoy your day
I unfortunately have never really considered myself a strong feminist, but as a student at UNC I am exposed to many issues regarding the subject compared to before. I read this post of yours and absolutely agree with your stance that women should not be looked at these objects of men. Your point is completely legitimate.
But the more important realization I got from this is the fact that, although at first glance these terms, “sister, daughter, and wife” seem dehumanizing, they are also terms that connect women to more than just themselves. It is true that not all will become wives or mothers, but whether we like it or not, we are all daughters, and even if the experience of being a daughter was not loving and contained un-explainable trauma, this fact of daughter-ship still connects us to our world and everything in it.
Woman are humans and individuals. These controversial words that are used to describe us ironically makes us more than just another being of the world; it connects us to the many people we influence while living here.
If we detach ourselves from all the roles we sometimes play in society, how can we can we expect to participate equally among the others?
Its comments like these that make me want to never call myself a feminist.
Thoughts like these keep us as far away from equality as we are.
You have taken something completely out of context. People use those “wives, mother, daughter” comments because they want men to feel emotionally closer to what the tragedy of rape feels like since it isn’t as applicable for them…not because they feel like women are their possession.
So Please join us in the 21st century.
These types of thoughts push away men that are willing to take that step towards equality. You take every single thing that they say and use it as a bullet to attack them and try to prove that what they’re doing is wrong.
So next time, before you put on your feminist skirt. Sit down and really think if your comment is actually helping your cause.
Thank you.
I hope you took the time to read some of the replies here as well. (Stella and Ilr’s in particular – below). They have an overwhelming consistency to them. One that leans differently from you and which is a reflection of society at large re “wives, mother, daughter…” And I would have to say that wearing a skirt ain’t that bad for the sake of equality.
Using the wives, mother, daughter defense in rape cases does not, in my opinion, have a chance of making the perp-man feel anything for the women that are raped because any man that would rape does not feel for anyone but himself. These rapists should be tried in court for something much stronger than this society puts forth as their wrong doing; they should be tried as someone that has attempted to kill the woman they raped because they are killing their spirit, the will to live in some women’s cases, killed their desire to go on. It not only is an attempt to kill the woman’s spirit, it succeeds in their heinous attempt, and I believe a man that would rape a woman, child, person, has the intent to kill that person’s spirit. It’s no act of mistaken behavior, or caused by a “boys night out” gone bad, and society says, “oh no”, “oh well, not a big deal.” – Like they did with these damn stupid kids. No woman is ever going to “get over it” and will never ever be the same again. It must NOT be looked upon as being an injury, or something that time will heal !!!!! We must try to change the way society sees this problem, not put a label on it, but see it for what it is, attempted murder of the spirit. This makes me ashamed of men when I hear about these awful behaviors and disgusting rapes, and that’s a sad thing because I do realize that not all men are like this.
I was a victim of rape when I was in college-a night when I was drunk-too drunk to move- and trusted the guys I had been friends with. Two who stuck their dicks in my mouth and had sex w me when i was wiggling and trying to say no. With that, i can say you are wrong that it always murders the spirit for it has not murdered mine. You are wrong that time doesn’t heal all wounds, bc even though it is a bad memory that I wish never happened, it does not effect my life now-over 10 yrs later. i have moved forward and on. Now I am not arguing the point that what these guys did is forgivable or shouldn’t be punished or whatever bc you can infact “get over it”, but you are making victims victims for their entire life. You are making a dangerous statement that we will never heal. You are ending our lives before giving us a chance to get better, so as someone who has been through it, I am asking you to reconsider your thought process. Don’t damn us foEVER when we already need, can, and WILL move forward from rape w the support of people around us and society. I thought it was my fault, I never reported it, I felt guilty and dirty, and I felt wrong. I know now that it was not my fault and I hope for my own children that they will know if god forbid something like that happens to them, that I have given them the strength to report it, that society will support them, and that it’s not their fault. And time will heal their spirits as it has mine.
Dear Tsv, I’m sorry, I was giving my personal opinion on this subject, and your opinion is yours. My opinion continues to be the same based on my own horrific life experiences which are different than yours. I will never tell you how to think, or what your opinion should be.
“People use those “wives, mother, daughter” comments because they want men to feel emotionally closer to what the tragedy of rape feels like since it isn’t as applicable for them…not because they feel like women are their possession.”
So glad to hear you know how everyone means this every single time. Because I’ve heard it used many times to mean exactly what this blog post is about: that a rape survivor is important not because she’s a human being but because she is valued by someone else (whether male or female, etc.)
Also, read what you wrote again, “They want men to feel emotionally closer to what the tragedy of rape feels like since it isn’t as applicable for them.” If a guy can’t grasp this without the explanation that it could happen to a women close to him then he is a narcissistic, sociopathic toadstool. The horror of rape simply is not that hard to grasp. Allowing men an excuse like that is *also* part of rape culture.
Then you don’t have to call yourself a Feminist; that’s your right. Thank you Mary Wollstonecraft, Susan B. Anthony, Lucretia Mott, Lucy Stone, etc.
This blog actually puts things back in context for me and shines a light on how we sometimes have to label ourselves to know where we fit in.
My husband found this blog, and he posted it, and the first comment is from a man. Please use better language than sweeping generalizations that the author’s words alienate ALL men. Good grief, she is not attacking men and if you will read more closely, she doesn’t spotlight what all men are doing wrong- but what two young men DID wrong!!
You actually make her point for her by saying “…not because they feel like women are their possession.” You nailed it- you are basing your argument on what the MEN feel. If a woman feels like she is labeled and that label makes HER feel like a possession, then please honour her feelings.
You also bring up a good point about men needing to feel emotionally closer to the tragedy of rape. O.K., be creative, when I was in college an experiment was done where a man volunteered to be in the centre of a group of women who got increasingly larger and increasingly closer into his space. This man had an epiphany, saying, “wow, is this what women feel like?”, well, yes, actually. But, um, why do we have to figure out how men need to be?
I have a lot of skirts, I’m lucky, but maybe before you sat down to react to this post you might have remembered that “her” cause is your cause too (and mine, and my husband’s and my father’s).
Thank you, too.
Well done Ashley, your attitude proves the point that in the eyes of many (unfortunately most) men women are valued only in their relationship to men and not as people in their own right. If you were even close to being a feminist, you would understand this point and wouldn’t continue with your blaming the victim mentality by blaming the author’s “thoughts” for “keep[ing] us as far away from equality as we are.” The funniest part of your comment is the assumption that “skirt” and “feminist” go together; you obviously think that feminism is only a woman’s issue. Which makes sense from your position.In your opinion only women who “want men to feel emotionally closer” embrace the male-identified roles of wives, mother, and daughter, so any woman who declines to do so and instead wants to be identified as a person in her own right must be a man hating feminist. I’d love to have you join us in the 21st Century, but you’ll have to leave your centuries old Patriarchal baggage behind in order to get here.
I have to say that there shouldn’t be a fight for equality at all. Man and woman are equal, full stop. Even thinking about it is pointless and shouldn’t happen at all. Why should anyone wait on man to be willing to take steps. It is not the mans world we live in any more.
I for one am grateful that you don’t call yourself a feminist. Because you obviously aren’t one. But you are funny – “feminist skirt” indeed. And all along I thought the feminists were the ones wearing the trousers – I mean “male pants.” And there’s no reason to be coy. When you say “Sit down and really think if your comment is actually helping your cause,” you should have been frank and just said what you really meant: Sit down and shut up. Well buck up Ashley, this feminist train is on the tracks and its leaving your male supremacist attitudes back at the Patriarchal station.
Rape is applicable to men. Men CAN be raped. Just saying. A lot of people think rape is something that ONLY happens to women but it’s not.
I’m not too sure that you truely understand the feminist movement. The fact that you say “‘they use those ‘wives, mother, daughter’ comments because they want men to feel emotionally closer to what the tragedy of rape feels” shows that you’re defining women through a man’s eye. A true feminist believes that we are all equal as people, not that we are equal when men start thinking of us as equal. This was exactly the point of the article. Never did it bash men or masculinity. Both men and women are needed equally in this world.
You did get one thing right though Ashlee, you are not a feminist. And you’re holding yourself back from equality in the 21st century.
As the daughter that was not loved, I am grateful to you for saying this. Was the molestation and rape that I endured as a kid any less horrific because no one ever gave a shit? All sexual violence, all violence, is wrong. We have to stop thinking of it as a matter of who the victim is and what they did before we decide to give a shit. Creating a society that Respects the right of all individuals to live lives without abuse is the only way to stop it. The people who saw this happening needed to see her as a person who deserved to be protected. The people around me when I was growing up should have seen that too.
Yes, absolutely, you are right. I’m so sorry for what happened to you. Your comments are totally correct and I only hope that society can someday show the respect for ALL peoples, no matter what. To hurt another person, in any physical way, is to break the law, and everyone should pay for breaking the law, no matter what. You said it so well.
And what about those of us who are orphaned, have no husband and no children. Hello! Single women are people as well.
Indeed!
Thanks.. powerful will be glad to share
Awesome.
Reblogged this on There Are So Many Things Wrong With This and commented:
Insightful and well written post on how men in this culture address female rape victims.
If you will call what those guys did ‘rape’ and label them as rapists, you must be ready to address all the “raping” that occurs across college campuses and high schools. Every college frat boy that has taken advantage of a drunk girl at a party or every middle/high schooler that has posted sexual images/comments of and about females or violated women’s ‘sanctity’ (i.e. girls locker room pranks and dares) should then be labeled as and convicted as rapists with the interpreted ‘appropriate’ sentence as punishment. What these men did was absolutely abhorrent and they deserved their sentence, but this outrage over their sentence is baseless and quite hypocritical. Unless one is willing to TAKE ACTION to ensure the ‘rape’ title/charge is extended to all acts that fall in line with what the young men did, and that the conviction penalties be steep regardless of age, (i.e. 10yr olds and 13yr olds could be charged with rape and face 10+ years as everyone is calling for) his/her infuriation is nothing but a meaningless tantrum. Stop complaining about it and do something if it’s that bothersome, but understand it’s a slippery slope.
Just for the sake of argument and as a member of Greek Life, I think it’s just as unfair to label those who take advantage of drunk girls “college frat boys”. If we’re trying to watch what we perpetuate as stereotypes, this is definitely another end of the spectrum.
Good point!
I have no problem calling this rape. Oh, its not the same type of rape that you may immediately think of with horrific images associated with it, but stripping a girl down and stick your fingers in her and a beer bottle up her butt IS rape under the law and not just some hyperbole or exaggeration for effect.
Every frat boy that did take advantage of a drunk girl IS a rapist.
Guys that peek in the shower are just idiots. Guys that take photos of naked girls are apparently going to jail for a year for spreading those images.
The outrage is not just over the sentences, but over the concern that sympathy for the criminals might lead to more incidents like this where we do not happen to have criminals stupid enough to document their crimes.
Understand that she was raped and then publicly humiliated again and again, and unfairly blamed for the rape. Putting ones self in a bad position like she did does not mean that is “responsible” for the crime, only that if she were a bit wiser she might have been able to avoid becoming the victim. The criminal is always responsible for their crimes, regardless of the “temptation” offered by having easy prey.
I agree that in NO way was she, or any person who gets raped, responsible for the crime but the “integrity” factor that Belle Jar refers to at the end, is also two-fold. Girls need to be taught to treat themselves with integrity, not just expect it from others. Especially on a college campus or a high school house party.
Secondly, why is no one even discussing that ALL of these kids are legally underage? These types of situations would be almost wholly avoided if they were legally allowed to drink beer at an establishment and therefore be in the presence of adults. Imagine instead: A parent/team celebration…The girl’s friends feeling it was okay to call their mom for advice…The girl not lying to her parents about going to a party…Parents driving the car to drop the kids home…Etc
I have lived in many countries where 16 year olds are allowed to go to a bar to hang out. At a bar there are security guards, bartenders, managers, etc who are legally responsible for the security of their patrons. The kids can meet up, drink a beer or two (two beers at a bar cost more than a 24 pack of “Natty Light” the baseball player referred to in his video), play pool, and dance. Then, they get picked up by a parent and go home safely.
Any act that violates another human being is rape. A man ramming his penis into a female’s vagina is just one form. We are ALL human. Until ALL of us get that concept and actually try and live like humans who control their urges of anger, aggression and violent outburst instead of turning to animal instincts, there will be rape and it involves all peoples, not just women. Start with yourself and those in your circle of influence. We can make changes for good without turning into haters.
She was “unfairly blamed for the rape”? Is this to suggest that one can be “fairly” blamed for a rape? It is not acceptable to be raped – why are you looking to women to prevent their rapes?
Stop making excuses for men.
Plain and simple without an express YES from a woman, through words or conduct, it is rape. You don’t need a NO, you need a YES. It’s the duty of those engaging in sexual conduct to make sure at every point in the course of conduct, consent is present.
All you need to do is get consent, its pretty simple. Stop looking at the woman – at all – The woman need not be “wise”. It doesn’t matter what she wears, or how she presents herself. And she certainly does not need to “avoid” being a victim.
Men need to “avoid” thinking they have any entitlement to women’s bodies. That it is ever acceptable to tell women to prevent their rapes is misguided. Men need to stop rape. They need to stop raping. And they need to stop thinking that women need to play a role in that.
To all the men, its pretty strait forward: If you don’t have a yes, its RAPE. Period.
You are deliberately twisting my words.
When I state that she was unfairly blamed I do not imply that anyone can be fairly blamed.
I’m stating that it is unfair to blame her. I make no excuses for what was done to her.
All I ever do, with regards to this situation, is point out that there are certain steps that
people can take to reduce the odds they will become a victim. You may not like the fact
that people have to take steps, but telling them to not take them is insane.
Do you think it unfair that you can’t leave your keys in your car ignition?
Do you think it unfair that you can’t leave your house door unlocked when you are not at home?
The world is not a fair place and pointing that out is not blaming the victim, its preparing
them so they will be less likely to become one. If can’t get this basic concept then I weep
for whoever you are responsible for.
I don’t understand why people are comparing rape — a violent crime against a person — with property crimes (theft, b&e). I wonder how many men walk down a dark street fearing that someone might jump out of the bushes and punch them in the face. Probably not many at all simply because the very idea of someone jumping out and punching one in the face defies imagination: It’s just not ok to assault people, and most of us know this. And yet women spend their lives being told not to walk in dark alleyways, to look under their cars, to never go to parties or bars without a gaggle of girlfriends in tow and to always (for god’s sake, always!) dress “appropriately” because if you don’t, you might get raped.
Rape is just as “not ok” as assault. In fact, it’s worse.
I use the comparison to other crimes because rape is a crime.
I have had guy friends that were mugged and beaten up. If I used that example
I would hear complaints about comparing THAT trauma with rape, which I do believe is worse.
“I” don’t walk down dark alleys alone.
“I” don’t choose to drink to the point of passing out at a party.
And we tell women to dress appropriately simply because we know scum exist that
will use it as an excuse for their behavior. This does NOT mean that we ourselves
believe that this is an excuse.
Teaching women how to decrease the odds of them becoming victims means that
we do not want them to become victims. Period.
If you were walking across a lake and we knew that a part of the ice was thin, should
we not point out that that part of the ice should be avoided?
A large number of women are raped by their husbands/partners. How do we tell them to prevent that from happening. Women in the Middle East who are covered head-to-toe are raped. How should they be dressing to avoid rape? I don’t disagree that alcohol increases the odds that a woman may be victimized (others have already pointed out that rapists often use alcohol in order to rape women), but I still disagree with the idea that telling women not to drink will protect them from rapists.
In fact, controlling women’s behavior won’t stop rape. Men controlling their own behavior *will. Men need to understand that if there is no consent (that means “yes means yes” rather than “no means no”), then it is rape. Even if they are nice guys. Even if they are dating her. Even if she is their wife. It’s still rape.
I am responsible for “my” actions. I have no ability to control the actions of others.
How do you prevent partner rape? Hopefully by learning the signs that they are that
type of person and teaching them to leave when abused.
We don’t happen to be in the middle east, so please don’t bring that into it, its not
relevant. Different culture where I have even less influence than my near non-existent
amount here.
Teaching women not to drink heavily around strangers does not guarantee
that they will not be raped, it just reduces the odds. It’s like a condom. It’s not 100%
effective, but that does not mean you should avoid using them just because its not
perfect.
And a guy that rapes a girl is not a “nice guy” or a good man!
If you are raped by your date, you report it and stop dating him!
If you are raped by your husband he obviously does not think of you as a full person
and you should not stay married to them!
You can either take reasonable precautions or not. If you do not, the odds of bad things
happening in life increase. Getting angry at that fact does not change reality.
Ignoring reality is just denial. The emperor has no clothes and should not be surprised
if he gets chilly or a sunburn.
I’m not angry. Please don’t project.
As to “nice boys,” no, obviously they aren’t actually nice — but isn’t the media currently fawning all over Steubenville’s “nice boys”? Don’t tell me that “nice boys” aren’t out there raping because they most certainly are.
Your responses re: DV are simplistic, and I’m leaving it at that.
Oh Richard, you have no idea! Once in a relationship with an abuser, the time at which a woman is most likely to be KILLED is when she is leaving or has already left that man.
She instinctivel knows this. Check the statistics, before you start giving advice to or about women in bad relationships.
Those guys aren’t just NOT nice guys, they are criminals who repeatedly get away with assaulting, as bullies get away with being bulies.
And as far as YOU having no influence, YOU DO. YOU CAN! Who do you think got people to stop smoking in public places? people who cared but mostly about their own lungs but also about others health as well. Social change doesn’t happen because people don’t have influence, It happens because we do have influence.
Care enough to work against the tide of male domination, to find out what perpetuates it, to see it in its sublter forms, to see how the sexist jokes you laugh at or don’t stand up against tell other men it is okay to deride or objectify women. Relate to all women as equal human beings without having to imagine they are related to you via blood or committment.
Would you intervene if you saw another man abusing a woman, or would you think it is none of your business? Would you risk your life or reputation to defend a woman’s right to be safe, to have equal pay, to have equal protection under the law, or would you blame her for being in a wrong relationship, wrong job, wrong country, wrong courtroom?
I recommend http://www.acalltomen.org
The majority of sexual assaults are planned, and the perpetrator takes advantage of women who have been drinking because they are more vulnerable. Let that sink in: sexual assaults are planned. Plus, the majority of rapes are committed by someone known to the victim: friends, family members, boyfriends, husbands, classmates, fellow soldiers and supervisors. Putting the burden on women to prevent rape won’t stop rape. The responsibility to stop rape should be placed entirely on men because they are the ones who do it. And drinking isn’t a crime, rape is.
Alcohol is the most widely used date-rape drug, although drugs like Rohypnol and GHB have garnered more media attention. Women have the right to get drunk without being raped. It is a crime to have sex with someone who is intoxicated or unconscious as they are legally unable to give consent. Studies have shown that in a large percentage of acquaintance rapes the rapist understands that he does not have consent and he uses alcohol to facilitate the rape. A study conducted by the Naval Health Research Center showed that men who committed multiple rapes knew that they didn’t have consent and they used substances to incapacitate their victims in order to complete the rape. And another study by David Lisak and Paul Miller came to similar conclusions: that men intend to rape and in a majority of the rapes, 80.8 percent, women were under the influence of drugs or alcohol.
These sexual predators target women who drink because they know it’s easier to physically overpower them. Many women who have been raped report that their attacker bought them numerous drinks and encouraged them to keep drinking for several hours before the attack. According to an article on rape and alcohol by Antonia Abbey in the Journal of American College Health, 75 percent of rapists said that they sometimes got women drunk in order to force sex on them. Another study showed that 40 percent of men said it was acceptable to force sex on a woman who was drunk.
Alcohol-facilitated rape isn’t an accident.
http://www.alternet.org/drugs/alcohol-new-short-skirt?page=0%2C2
Not everyone that is bothered by what these jerks have done is able to or has the platform to “do something” as you say. But by stating how we all feel, could in turn, fuel action by someone that does have the ability to do something. So I say let’s NOT tell people to “stop complaining”. I’m sure the women that have been raped do not feel that the people that are wishing rapists get what they actually deserve, are Complaining. I certainly am not complaining when I state my feelings about this case and other rapes in society. I’m furious and at the moment have no contacts that can do anything about this, but reading comments like yours makes me know that I must always look over my shoulder and be ready for any attacker at any time, and I should expect that the perp should not do much time for much harm. I know that at least one person out there believes that taking advantage of a person that drank alcohol is an offense that deserves minimal sentence, of about a year in prison. Drinking alcohol does not give anyone the right to take any advantage, images or physical. Hurting a person that is drunk makes the offense even worse, the perp is hurting someone that can’t fight back or protect themselves, and, it is not illegal to get drunk, but is illegal to rape anyone. Something is slippery here but not sure it’s a slope.
Your responses and link seem great for academics, but could you post a simple example of one of the exercises, please?
Cylyn, Thank you! this made sense. I wasn’t sure if you were agreeing with bellejar or not? Still don’t know. Am curious?
Drinking alcohol doesn’t give anyone the right to rape/be raped and I never even brought that up. What it does give is a state of mind in which lines are easily blurred. This entire debate will ALWAYS come back to alcohol and the issue of self-safety awareness. If alcohol was not in the equation this reaction probably would not have gone to completion; alcohol is a very strong catalyst in a large majority of rape cases. While I believe there are lots of evil people out there who go out of their way to sexually assault others, I also believe there are some people out there who don’t intentions as cruel as that who are ‘looking to have fun’ and under the influence of alcohol end up crossing strict lines. I am 100% fine with grouping ALL violaters regardless of intent under the Rapist term as that is the only rational and absolute thing to do. But I must make the point that a better way to truly determine who is a rapist and who isnt is to take the blurrying catalysts out of the equation. No drunk driver ever intends to drive for the sake of killing others, just as no sane sober person would publically vandalize property or engage in overly disruptive behavior that sends them to jail, or gets them a DUI, but we see that happen all the time. But take the alcohol/keys out of their hands and they are less likely to engage in such acts and endanger others.
Also, those who who are SMART when under the influence know how to be safe and have lower chances of being assaulted whether by robbery or God-forbid, sexual assault; that is unarguable. I personally have a right to walk around with thousands of dollars in expensive jewelry on me. But I will not do that because I know there are people out there looking for a chance to rob me. That’s common sense to me. If women aren’t aware that there are predators out there looking to harm them, who often look to take advantage of them when inebriated, then we’re doing something wrong in raising young ladies.
Which brings me to my other point- If we wanna go the sexist route we’re heading on in this debate, this talk of educating men to not rape women is as dumb as they get. I mean do we educate adults not to molest children? NO, we tell our kids don’t talk to strangers/don’t take anything from strangers; why then should we be changing that standard. As sad as it is to say, I feel like women everywhere are smart enough to know that they are more at risk for sexual assaults..that’s just statistically true. We raise our sisters/ daughters to be strong independent women who 1. know how to be safe and 2. to be firm/fervent about protecting themselves. “=I tell my little sister all the time:
“don’t ever walk streets alone after 9, and if you’re ever drinking make sure you call a cab/ call me/ call one of your girlfriends- never walk home from the bars intoxicated, whether in a group or not. Always have a friend within visible range whenever you’re drinking, especially at bars/clubs. If she needs to go to the bathroom, go with her, (you do that already). Never leave with any guy (regardless of whether you know them/well) without 1, your cell phone and 2, letting one of your girlfriends know where you are (she’ll never tell me stuff like that so I don’t ask her to). If a guy is ever too forceful in his advance, shout/scream, kick him where it hurts if you have to, never be submissive, EVER. Remember you always have me and can call me whenever!”
She’s a very smart girl and knows how to be safe and handle her own. I don’t ever really need to worry about her because she was raised well and is just generally a heady girl. My point being- I/my parents were the ones who taught her how to be smart and she’s a safer person for it. All I as a male was taught was to respect women and treat them like I would my mother/grandma/ sister. I don’t expect all men to have been taught that, obviously because there are so many out there who don’t know how to treat women.
Tom, we’ve been trying- but it took until 2008 to get rape counted as a war crime. So, the “do something” is in itself a slippery slope indeed.
You are a man, why don’t you rally some other men to go old school style and mentor the frat boys and the locker room kids? Why don’t you stand up to myopic coaches and men who dismiss violence against women?
The greatest action you can take is to be an example, and inspire other men to do the same!
Thank you!
I may be wrong but I believe the outrage over the sentencing lies in the fact that these two should have been tried as adults. The decision to try an older teen as an adult isn’t always cut and dry. There are reasons the juvenile sentencing system is different from the adult sentencing system. It’s not very easy to TAKE ACTION as you suggest.
It’s also inappropriate to call it “rape” in this case. They were convicted. You can go ahead and take those quotes off because it’s rape. Rape-rape. Legitimate rape, even!
Yes, Tom. I am ready to call that rape. Take off the filthy quotation marks. What you describe is rape. And plenty of people are taking action against it. Plenty of people are doing something, and guess what? We can speak out about it, too, and you can’t stop it by labeling it “complaining”. And your use of the word “bothersome” to describe rape is mind-boggling.
It’s not at all a slippery slope. Every frat boy who has sex with a girl who did NOT specifically say “yes” to the intercourse IS a rapist. There’re no ifs, ands or buts about it.
As to age, I can’t imagine why juveniles wouldn’t be charges as juveniles if they were found to have raped someone. The problem is, if a 17 year old boy had murdered someone, he’s almost certain to have been charged as an adult. Apparently, the courts don’t take rape quite as seriously even though it’s a violent (yeah, even “date” rape) act that will affect the victim the rest of his/her life.
Spot on. Thank you for this! While people who are speaking relationally are trying to humanize the women they are discussing, the subtext is “what if she were someone that has value to you,” which implies that she does not have inherent value on her own.
I also found the president’s speech troubling. He also said “these aren’t women’s issues, they are family issues,” which really bothered me, because it implies that women’s issues can’t be important on their own, which in turn suggests that women aren’t important.
I love it when an article just knocks me off my soapbox. This one certainly did. I agree so much with all that is said in this article. I wanted to respond thusly: “Yes, but…..” and give my reasons why this is right, but…..(which, of course, just means it’s wrong). I wanted to say “But, I think people use this phrase to get the person they are disagreeing with to see the victim’s side”. It’s just never that simple, is it? Wow. Unlike Ashlee, it’s things like this that make me so proud to call myself a FEMINIST. I do wish I didn’t have to though….
Reblogged this on singlequeergrrl and commented:
Completely off topic, I know, but everyone needs to read this.
While I whole heartedly applaud your statements here the huge, glaring missing element in all of that is – TEACH YOUR SONS NOT TO RAPE. It’s all well and good to teach girls that they are loved and valuable and deserve to live in a world where they won’t get raped, but until society stops treating rape as a “women’s issue” and starts treating it as a “social issue” in which women and MEN need to effect change then little will get done.
Of course people should be taught not to rape.
They should be taught to be respectful of others and not take what is
not their’s too.
But, there is a reason why we have laws and jails.
Because there are bad people in the world and teaching women how to
avoid becoming a victim does not make a “woman’s issue” except for the fact that the majority of the victims of rape happen to be women.
Reblogged this on Sweltering Rose and commented:
Perfect. Couldn’t have said it any better.
Bravo, those words people, person aee enough.
So, what if the rhetorical device is gender-neutral? I.e., “sibling, child, spouse.” I agree 100% that one does not derive worth from one’s relationship to another person, whether that person is male or female. But if the point is to make selfish, simplistic (someone used ‘caveman brain’) people empathize for the rape victim (or the victim of any crime, or the soldier, or the teacher, or the student, or the worker, or any collective that may the subject of discussion), isn’t the device useful in some way? To (hopefully) make the shallow listener stop and think, “Wow, that victim/soldier/teacher/student/worker that is the subject of criticism/has endured a horrific experience/is trying to raise awareness about an issue could be my loved one. Maybe I should pay attention to this issue.”
Reblogged this on Ms. DinnerTable and commented:
“What you are actually doing is perpetuating rape culture by advancing the idea that a woman is only valuable in so much as she is loved or valued by a man.”
We also never say that with millions of rapists in the world they are someone’s son, brother etc. Rape apologists want rapists to be “monsters”. They want us to believe that “normal” men don’t rape but the reality is that so many men rape it’s normalised behaviour. In fact, it’s so common that I can’t see a comment from a male rape apologist without thinking about the likelihood that he’s not justifying the actions of teenagers he’s never met but his own behaviour. If we want to focus on sons and daughters, a good first step would be actively teaching our sons respect for women and that rape is always wrong.