Rape Culture at the University of Ottawa

28 Feb

On February 10th, Anne Marie Roy, president of the Student Federation of the University of Ottawa, was sent screenshots of a chat that had taken place earlier in the month between two student federation board members and several other students who are either elected to or participate in various faculty associations. The chat had taken place during the student federation elections, and all five men involved were members of a campaign opposing Roy’s (Roy has been president of the student federation since May 2013, and was re-elected this month). The conversation was about Roy, and the portion she was given contained graphic sexual descriptions about what the men wanted to do to her, including a rape joke that could, potentially, be taken as a rape threat.

Below are the screenshots. The participants are as follows:

Bart Tremblay: a non-elected student involved with the association for the Arts faculty

Alexandre Giroux: On the board of directors of the Student Federation of the University of Ottawa, and VP Social for the Science Student Association

Alex Larochelle: VP Social for the Criminology Student Association

Pat Marquis: VP Social of the Student Federation of the University of Ottawa

Michel Fournier-Simard: VP Social for the Political Science and International developement Association

Screen Shot 2014-02-28 at 1.56.05 PM

Bart Tremblay: Let me tell you something right now: the “tri-fluvienne” [nickname for someone from Trois-Rivières, Québec] president will suck me off in her office chair and after I will fuck her in the ass on Pat [Marquis]’s desk

Alexandre Giroux: Tri-fluvienne? Who’s that?

Alex Larochelle: PJ I believe?

Bart Tremblay: Anne-Marie Roy, you dipshits, she comes from Trois-Rivières

Screen Shot 2014-02-28 at 1.56.45 PM

Alexandre Giroux: What? No. What a shit-eater. She says that she comes from somewhere in Ontario.

Alex Larochelle: Fuck yeah Anne Marie Roy

Bart Tremblay: She told me Trois-Rivières

Alexandre Giroux: Haha shiiit

Alex Larochelle: Someone punish her with their shaft

Alexandre Giroux: Well Christ, if you fuck Anne Marie I will definitely buy you a beer

Screen Shot 2014-02-28 at 1.57.07 PM

Alex Larochelle: Hahah, I’d buy you a beer too

Bart Tremblay: Lol

Alexandre Giroux: BAHAHA

Pat Marquis: I’ll get a 24 for Bart if he does it

Bart Tremblay: [Thumbs up symbol]

Bart Tremblay: Yeeee

Screen Shot 2014-02-28 at 1.57.41 PM

Michel Fournier-Simard: Dude she has chlamydia. And she told francophone students that she was from Trois-Rivières but she moved to Southern Ontario when she was five years old. It’s a super political strategy.

Alex Larochelle: Hahaha I heard she has syphilis

Alexandre Giroux: Well look hahhahahah

Alex Larochelle: But those get treated bro lol. Someone told Pat and I when we were in Boston. It’s such bull shit hahaha.

Someone punish her with their shaft. Someone punish her with their shaft. This is the type of thing that’s said about women in positions of power – not a critique of their policies, but a threat of sexual violence. Not a comment on how they do their job, but graphic fantasies about how they should be sexually degraded. Nothing about their intelligence or capability, just a string of jokes about how riddled with venereal disease they are. This is misogyny, pure and simple. This is slut-shaming. This is rape culture.

Can you imagine anything like this ever being said about a male leader? Try to picture, for a moment, a female candidate saying that her opponent is going to eat her out, or that she’s going to “punish” him with her vagina. Sounds pretty unlikely, doesn’t it? And yet, this is the kind of thing that women are subjected to all the time; the truth is that no matter how far we might think we’ve come, no matter how many female CEOs there might be, the belief that women are little more than a collection of fuck-holes persists. Oh sure, people might pay lip-service to the fact that women are equal to men in intelligence, talent, and capability, but at the end of the day we can’t escape the fact that a woman is still viewed as being less than a person. Because that conversation right there? That is not how you talk about a person.

What’s even worse is that events like these are nearly always downplayed. It’s just a joke, people say. They would never have said that if they’d thought you would hear it. In fact, three of the five men involved in the conversation are considering legal action against Roy on the grounds that it was a private conversation that should not have been made public. That’s right. They want to pursue legal action against her because she publicly called them out for making rape jokes about her. This is the fucked up culture we live in.

To make things even worse, these men are all in a position of leadership at the University of Ottawa. These are the people that the students look up to, that they use as a sort of moral compass to navigate university life. If these men face no consequences for their actions – indeed, if they are able to press charges against Roy for publicly addressing their comments – what are the students going to learn from this? They’ll learn that rape is a joke, that women can be terrorized into silence, and that it’s useless, maybe even dangerous, to speak up. Are these the lessons that we want our student leaders to be instilling in the heads of seventeen and eighteen year old kids?

Since this incident was first brought to light, Pat Marquis, the VP Social for the Student Federation of the University of Ottawa, has been in discussions with Roy about the accountability measures he can take for his role in this conversation. It is their hope that these measures can be a public conversation between Roy and Marquis, and could serve as a learning opportunity for the student body. Alex Larochelle has also contacted Roy and tentatively mentioned participating in this conversation as well. As for Bart Tremblay, Alexandre Giroux and Michel Fournier-Simard, they are continuing to attempt to pursue legal action against Roy.

I reached Roy this afternoon for a statement, and she had this to say:

“It’s definitely concerning because these are individuals who are responsible for putting on social events, many of which involve alcohol, and they are also responsible for the safety of membership at these events. On a personal level I feel that this is very misogynistic, I feel that this is a reaction that these men are having because I’m a woman in a position of leadership. My concerns on this are twofold: first, the issue of student safety in general, and second, that women are not going to feel safe running for positions of leadership on campus.”

I think she pretty much hits the nail on the head with that assessment.

ETA: comments are now closed on this post

276 Responses to “Rape Culture at the University of Ottawa”

  1. linddykal March 2, 2014 at 5:54 am #

    I hope they’re all expelled and prosecuted. Especially the main offender that made the “joke” (veiled threat intended to keep women in their place.)

    • RealPolitik March 2, 2014 at 6:50 am #

      Prosecuted? For what!?

      I hate people who try and control free speech. Its like you think you have the right to not be offended. Let me remind you.

      You dont.

  2. linddykal March 2, 2014 at 6:07 am #

    And anyone who says they are just joking is part of the problem.

    • Little Miss Obvious March 2, 2014 at 7:41 am #

      I don’t know about these guys, but the Witches were just joking in Salem back in the 1800s. They weren’t joking for long. though :D

      I say we lynch anyone who disagrees with us!

      Or lock them up. Fill them prisons up with people we’re afraid MIGHT be rapists, let them GET RAPED and make friends with criminals and when they get out, they should be real happy we taught them the most important lesson of their lives:

      “If you make white women feel uncomfortable, that is a crime”



      • Nicole March 2, 2014 at 8:51 am #

        Little Miss Obvious- You are angry and it’s hampering your argument. You keep trying to sound intelligent, and the harder you do the more you fail at it. Your ideas are convoluted, and your arguments are all over the map at this point.

        Let me help you out a bit here, but full disclosure- I’m female.

        No one “let” her win. She won, and your bitterness is inciting you to anger. Yet you decry this same reaction in feminists.

        You shouldn’t complain about people insulting others in an online setting while simultaneously arguing for these men’s rights to say they’ll ass fuck a woman they dislike. Even if you think wagging a finger at these insults is a clever meta joke, you’re diminishing your freedom of speech standpoint.

        You complain about media placing unrealistic expectations on men. You’re right. But no more or less than they do on women. We’re all in that together, so it’s a moot point.

        Your list of definitions of feminism is evidence that you’re seeking out control over women’s rights, and by extension women. I’m very sorry though, unless you’re a feminist or a contributor to a dictionary, you don’t get to decide the meaning of feminism, especially if you’re denying a woman’s right to identify or define what she believes is rape culture.

        Women contribute to society. Historically speaking men may have given more in terms of social or cultural advancement, but in this day and age women contribute just as much. You can agree to that or you can agree that women still don’t have an equal place in society (thus proving feminists correct).

        If you live to a ripe old age you may have to face cancer. Remember Marie Curie if you ever choose radiation therapy. And maybe somewhere along the way before that you’ll realize that there are/have been amazing and terrible women, just as there are/have been amazing and terrible men.

        It’s not clear whether you’re one of the men involved in this case or not. What I would bet either way is that you identify as a men’s rights activist. And what I can guarantee is that you’re an angry individual. What those dudes wrote to each other was uncalled for, plain and simple. If you said it, you were in the wrong and are undoubtedly too embarrassed and proud to admit it. If you didn’t say it, your blind rage defense of it is a strange choice for someone who claims to hate blogs so much.

  3. RealPolitik March 2, 2014 at 6:23 am #

    I find it kind of funny that this is being termed “rape culture” or something along those lines. Firstly, I don’t think the people saying this realize how much it hurts the ACTUAL cause (the fact that rape still happens and is a terrible thing). I’m not saying that “boys will be boys”, but you must understand that this is how a lot of men talk to eachother. A lot of it is posturing for ourselves anyways … but I mean, insinuating that this is some kind of planned violence or that the fact that violence is in the conversation means it crosses into rape territory … seems so silly. If you want to get rid of that kind of speak amongst men … well, good luck. I would have to say that its not going anywhere though.

    Calling what these guys said some kind of rape … or part of rape culture … or really anything to do with rape … all it does is delegitimize the whole idea of being anti-rape. This is the problem – people who actively campaign to end rape and raise awareness (obviously a good thing, I might add) are taking too large a swath of social interaction into the “rape” thing. And they risk losing it all because most men (who, I mean .. seem to be the rapists for the most part and the people you need to reach the most) won’t agree with all of what you’re saying or trying to contain into the meaning of “rape”.

    Raping a girl … is rape. That’s bad. Guys talking about having sex with a coworker? Tasteless. But not rape. Or even rape culture. That’s just men talking (or in this case, shamelessly bragging) about what they want to do. You can’t control wants or desires. And this is nothing more than a verbal expression of those. Obviously if an act was actually committed, then this would be different. But nothing happened.

    At the end of the day, this seems like a lot of sensitive people angry at reading something they didnt want to read. But this is reality .. men oftentimes talk like this about women they find attractive. Either you can get offended like an idiot, or stop pretending this is some big deal and go back to worrying about what really matters … actual rape.

    …… but I would imagine the offense-route is much more fulfilling … so … have at ye.

    • Auntie Alias March 2, 2014 at 5:51 pm #

      You’re failing to distinguish between conversations about sexual desire and this conversation that was overtly hostile. The biggest red flag was this: “Someone punish her with their shaft.” That was NOT about sexual desire. It was about revenge. I refuse to believe that most men talk like that about women.

  4. lululucysrant March 2, 2014 at 8:40 am #

    Hello, I’m sorry that you’re getting so many negative comments. I got one from simply reposting… Pls know that I, and many others share your view. Thanks for the post!

    • JD March 2, 2014 at 5:27 pm #

      I think most of the negative comments on here are from a troll called ‘Little Miss Obvious’ so don’t take it personally. If you read past all the screeching, you can tell he’s got alot of personal ego tied up in this, and he’s just lashing out with side issues to make himself feel better. Seriously, look at the volume of comments – he’s got a persecution complex and shares a common sense of self-entitlement that his view and opinions are the only relevant ones, and/or hes a hire PR flak for the male persecution lobby. None of what he’s written makes much sense – its just reactionary projection. I find much of quite amusing in that sad pathetic way. [I say he because, well, this is probably a reasonable assumption given the circumstances and the comments.]

      Look, these guys chose to write their comments on a forum/media in which they had no reasonable expectation of privacy. Facebook’s own policy and case law (the little that there is) shows that there is no expectation of privacy in what they wrote. Just because they thought it was a discussion amongst themselves does not mean it was private. Terrorist cells tried that argument a decade ago and it didn’t work for them either. As others pointed out, somebody had access to that conversation to get the screencaps, and unless they can show they were hacked or forced under threat to reveal them, that implies legit access, and unless they were under a specific contract or obligation not to reveal it, its fair game. Even if they were, once its out you can’t put the genie back in the bottle, just try to claim damages. The facts in Jones v. Tsige, the case being trotted out as protecting their privacy aren’t even close to this situation.

      At the end of the day, they wrote about her specifically and she is free make others aware of what they wrote and interpret as she wishes. I think what LMO is trying to distract people with is the supposed moral outrage of her motives and spin on outing them. The problem is that what they wrote in their own words on FB pretty much speaks for itself – its misogynist and celebrates domination of will through sexualized imagery, which is the essence of what is known as ‘rape culture.’ It appears they just don’t get that (that’s the entitlement), and think their conversation was ok, and the fault lies in somebody else for making it public. No amount of spin or apologist pleading from LMO is going to help – if anything, its just making it worse for them.

      If the guys do sue, assuming they can find a lawyer who would take the case, it would be really interesting to see how this would play out. Even if they argue free speech, considering the specificity of the names and actions in the text, I doubt the publicity and arguments will help their careers.

  5. s.d. March 2, 2014 at 9:20 am #

    I can only hope that this situation follows them. Whenever a future employer looks them up – I pray that they will see this story. Whether or not legal actions are taken against them, I feel comfort in the fact that this may very well haunt them for days to come.

    I hope that outing the conversation between these idiots prevents future attacks or threats against any woman. I call them idiots mainly because they used FACEBOOK of all places to carry out this ridiculous conversation. Facebook is essentially public. They sell your information to marketing companies and it even states in their privacy policy that “information associated with your account will be kept until your account is deleted.”

    These boys need to be held accountable for their actions, and I hope that they get expelled from the University.

    Let me be clear on something: i am in no way a feminist. I am a female student attending University who wants to feel safe in her academic environment The faculty of the University is at a crossroads: If this isn’t handled properly, it will set a precedent that this type of behavior is acceptable among their student body.

    Again, I AM NOT A FEMINIST. I am just sick of these types of boys who think they can say/do anything they want without any consequences. I keep referring to them as boys because that’s what they are: stupid little boys. That’s all they are at this point. They are not real men until they own their behavior, rather than trying to shame someone into silence Most of my friends are MEN, and none of them would ever “joke” about something like this, because they respect women..These boys went too far, and I sincerely hope that they are punished for their actions.

  6. Chantal Legault March 2, 2014 at 3:25 pm #

    Can you please give us an update on the action the university is taking towards this unacceptable behavior.

  7. marcjacobsbymarcjacobs March 2, 2014 at 4:39 pm #

    The amount of times I’ve heard a girl say”punish me with your shaft”

  8. Dante79 March 2, 2014 at 5:01 pm #

    Just a few comments.
    First, just for the record, “Trifluvien/ne” is not a “nickname”, but the actual demonym for people from Trois-Rivières.
    Second, and most importantly: Although I agree with pretty much everything here, I do take issue with comments like “it’s hard to imagine a woman being involved in that kind of behaviour”. Sexual harrassment/assault committed by woman, although not as prevalent, is a documented problem and is just as unacceptable.
    Third, as a man, I would urge other like-minded men not to hesitate to publicly criticize that kind of behaviour. If enough decent men – and I know there are plenty out there – were to stand beside women on this issue, it would send the message to other men that this kind of behaviour will not be condoned by their peers, and that could be the beginning of the end for that unapologetic culture.

  9. Kat March 2, 2014 at 6:38 pm #

    As a future uOttawa student in the fall I’m beginning to have doubts about this place…

    • Kiersten March 3, 2014 at 2:58 am #

      It’s unfortunate that this event happened on our campus, but the school is taking the issue seriously. I hope you still decide to join us in the fall.

  10. BarbieD March 2, 2014 at 10:15 pm #

    I think the conversation was degrading, demeaning, and offensive. And I certainly support calls for their resignations.

    However, somebody on this comment board accused me of contributing to rape culture by saying that the backlash against these individuals is a bit overwrought.

    Once again, I will repeat, I think the comments were disgusting and offensive. Anybody who knows me, including my girlfriend, will tell you that I am nothing but respectful to women. I would never contemplate saying anything like that. Being accused of contributing to a rape epidemic caught me quite off guard.

    My point is this: I should be able to call for moderation and mercy without being lumped in with this amorphous “rape culture”. The term is unfair and inaccurate, and it needs to be used with caution. To be honest, it reminds me of Vic Toews, who said opponents of his tough-on-crime bill were “siding with the pedophiles”. Or in the United States, where anyone who criticized Israeli foreign policy risks being labelled an anti-Semite.

    Living in a democratic country, we have the freedom to debate these issues. Dissenters should be welcomed without the fear of being smeared on the internet as the worst kind of evil.

    • Auntie Alias March 3, 2014 at 2:01 am #

      The conversation was also filled with violent imagery, something you have refused to acknowledge.

      “I am nothing but respectful to women.”

      Do you normally go around telling women who disagree with you that they “need to have (their) head examined”? That’s disrespect right there.

      You refuse to acknowledge the validity of rape culture yet you’re offended that I accused you of contributing to it. You can’t have it both ways. If it doesn’t exist, what’s the problem?

      • BarbieD March 3, 2014 at 6:06 am #

        You are a troll and do need to have your head examined. That has nothing to do with mysognism, just your mental soundness as a human being. You are also not the spokesperson for women, even though you probably think that.

        And your logic is dubious. Who said anything about validity? I never said a rape culture does not exist, I said I despise the term because it is overly used and poorly defined, a statement which I stand by. How that contributes to a culture of rape escapes me.

        In this case, I disagree that rape culture is appropriate. Which means we have a difference of opinion and you should move on.

      • BarbieD March 3, 2014 at 6:09 am #

        And to buttress the point that I am not contributing to mysoginism, which is the more appropriate term, I have called their comments disgusting and offensive, and I agreed that they should not hold public office. Our disagreement is over word choice, not the fact that their behaviour was inexcusable. How you fail to see that also escapes me.

      • BarbieD March 3, 2014 at 6:18 am #


      • Auntie Alias March 3, 2014 at 11:25 am #

        You’re still refusing to admit the Facebook conversation contained violent imagery. Why are you so resistant?

      • BarbieD March 3, 2014 at 2:28 pm #

        I never refused to admit that, you never asked me to, and I have no obligation to admit anything since I never spoke those words.

        For your peace of mind, yes, at least one of the statements is violent. This does not change anything. What else do you want me to admit?

  11. Auntie Alias March 2, 2014 at 10:40 pm #

    Did you receive a letter from Larochelle’s lawyer? According to a CP article:

    He also provided The Canadian Press with a copy of a letter he sent to the author of a blog which has discussed the matter openly.“Nothing in my client’s statements are misogynistic, “slut-shaming,” or refer to “rape,” wrote Michael D. Swindley in that letter.


    • JD March 3, 2014 at 2:58 am #

      If you have received a Cease & Desist letter about this, please consider posting it or quoting the key demands & reasoning here, as well as the firm/lawyer(s) sending it. This could greatly help us understand what legal arguments are taking shape around this.

  12. Alma Matters March 2, 2014 at 10:55 pm #

    Their parents should get a copy of this “conversation” because they should hang their heads in shame at the kind of boys they raised (certainly not men of upstanding character; that’s for sure). … Calling them animals would be an insult to the animal kingdom as no animals on this planet treat their females the way humans do. … Absolutely abhorrent! They should be expelled immediately and charged with libel, defamation of character and uttering threats of violence. And, IMHO, banished to the Gobi dessert to fend for themselves, as the wild beasts that they are.

    • im in a jock strap and cowboy hat right now ;) March 3, 2014 at 4:43 am #

      You’re the type of self righteous prick id love to see choke on the smell of your own farts. Btw that’s not an actual threat that I’m going to forcibly make you choke on your own fart you basic, one dimensional waste of air.

      First, the beautiful animal kingdom that you love so much is slightly more accepting of rape (surprise sex) than these young men. All you crazy feminazis go around looking for the next excuse to be outraged. This conversation does not even come close to promoting or encouraging rape. It is little more than a few young men having a PRIVATE conversation involving some taboo humor. To say anything past that is man shaming and nothing more. If this were three women having a spirited conversation about what they’d like to do with a man, it would be considered playful and perhaps sassy (ex. sex and the city). It certainly wouldn’t be in the news and most likely the women involved would not be having the same vitriol hurled their way.

      Take your head out of your ass and go educate your children and other youths about how to treat women properly instead of vilifying these young men.

      They were not talking about raping her. They were using expressionism to create comical visual images of someone they dislike. Grow a sense of humor.

      ps. sorry for the feminazi comment but you’re neurosis bothers me more than I can express in words

      chauvinist pig

    • Joe Campersas March 3, 2014 at 5:34 am #

      I admit that these boys deserve to be punished. Yes what they done is very wrong, but IMHO, they do not deserved to be banished to the Gobi Desert to fend for themselves. That is stupid. Plus, there are animals that do rape each other, like chimpanzees and orangutans.

    • Ashley March 3, 2014 at 1:34 pm #

      you do realize this was a private conversation.. how should they be expelled or charge with defamation of character.. no comments were directed towards her. Learn the law please.

  13. Jeff Kstiw March 3, 2014 at 12:16 am #

    I’m amazed at the amount of overblown attention this is getting. It’s sad when people blow things out of proportion and vilify people who really don’t deserve it. Are the guys asses? Yes. Have I said things almost as bad? Probably.
    But it makes me sick that these people get so indignant about a conversation like this, and then go home and read their copy of 50 Shades of Grey and masturbate while thinking about a man dominating them, hacking their emails, leaving bruises, negating their consent with the use of drugs, and overall intimidating them. These are all things done by Grey in the book, and worse. But that’s okay, because he’s hot and rich, and it’s just fiction, right?
    Well, 50 million copies of a book that promotes abuse of women seems to me to be a little more significant than five assholes making crude comments because they’re sore losers. I wonder which is more likely to promote rape culture. Fucking hypocrites. Women cry rape culture, then they go contribute to and support literature that perpetuates it, all because they choose to see it as erotic romance.
    Try taking that same tactic here, and see it as inappropriate banter that we all know exists and will never eliminate. It won’t actually convince someone that they should go rape a person just because their friends were talking about it, although the 50 Shades series is more likely to both encourage stalker and abusive behavior in men who see women admiring it, and also discourage women from speaking out about real life behavior similar to the book.

    • Auntie Alias March 3, 2014 at 2:08 am #

      Please tell me you haven’t actually threatened to rape someone for revenge.

      This conversation was about a real person. It’s not a work of fiction.

      • Douglas March 3, 2014 at 9:58 am #

        How did you even draw this conclusion?

      • Ashley March 3, 2014 at 1:38 pm #

        this conversation was never directed to her… you do realize that.. don’t you

      • Auntie Alias March 3, 2014 at 4:55 pm #


        Jeff said, “Have I said things almost as bad? Probably.”

    • Deanna March 3, 2014 at 5:42 am #

      While I’m trying to see your point, and I have not read the book, it is any women’s right to fantasize about anything she wants. And if two consenting adults choose to participate in domination or email hacking etc, thats their right and choice. If I choose to read a book about this because it turns me on that’s also my right and choice even if I never actually want to participate in any sexual act portrayed in the book.

      In my opinion 50 shades of gray in no way promotes rape culture as its two consenting adults that make the choice to participate in every sexual act (like I said I haven’t read the book so please correct me if I’m wrong). This conversation is rape culture as rape culture is a culture that can casually joke about rape! I.E someone should punish her with their shaft. This is not a conversation about being sexual attracted to her. Which I assume would go along the lines of how much they would like to sleep with her. Which would still imply that they would respect her decision to say no. To punish her with their shaft would imply that they would not respect such a decision. The point of bringing this conversation public is to help make inappropriate banter like this non existent by educating everyone not just men that jokes about rape are serious and will not be tolerated.

    • wheresalex March 3, 2014 at 5:47 am #

      You make a great point about the book propagating this culture, but I don’t see why one cancels the other out. They’re both wrong.

    • brent lidstone March 3, 2014 at 9:13 am #

      I have to disagree with this wholeheartedly on one basis, and that is that it was a private conversation.

      Its said in the article that it doesn’t matter whether or not the conversation was private. Well, yes, it does. I’m not apologizing for their behaviour but a comment said in private conversation, meant as an extremely crude joke I might add, does not constitute a threat but any means. From a legal standpoint its sort of ridiculous.
      The conversation obviously made someone feel very uncomfortable because she was sent it, but to use the word “threat” in this context is sort of absurd. The comments were not intentionally harmful or scary to anyone. The unintentional consequences of their actions will be having their characters and leadership severely judged, probably being thrown from their posts. Good. But to say they should be expelled? Please, that’s crazy. You can’t open the door to people being expelled because of comments they make in private conversations. That’s severely infringing on free speech. Its also not hate speech if it wasn’t intended to harm.

    • Constance Corbett March 3, 2014 at 2:00 pm #

      Perhaps you need to understand, these guys are your leaders. This is a threat of bodily harm. You seem to think that the book 50 shades of Grey is giving permission for the rape culture to exist. If you read Mein Kamph do you feel you have permission to start a war? Or you read the newspaper, you feel it’s ok to do whatever is being talked about? There is this division between what someone reads and real life. Maybe you missed that day in school. What people fantasize about has nothing to do with the targetted “we’ll damage her” attitude of the boys = they have proved they are bullies, unfit to lead.

      Then there are the enablers..I’ll buy you a beer if you enact your shared vision on target x. I’ll by you two I’ll buy you a case if cohort 2 does it. This is where they become liable. Same as a person who hires a hitman. Payment for harm is just as bad.

      None of this would have been said if it was a Man. Nor would those children still be sitting in seats of power if they were being held accountable immediately.

      Lets remember children that Twitter and Facebook are the same as standing on a podium and announcing attitudes to the world. Backpeddaling saying “oh it was a joke’ when obviously it’s bad looser, said in anger is another attempt to free them from being held responsible for their words. Responsibility is something that needs to be making a comeback. I am appaled that a Canadian University Student Body Leadership would think uttering threats against women is ok. Explains a lot about the leadership that the University of Ottawa is engendering.

    • Andrew Waterloo (@Andrew_Waterloo) March 3, 2014 at 2:12 pm #

      Wow.. You should copy down what you write and read it again in a year. Hopefully by then this will embarrass you. Even the ‘private’ conversation didn’t have elements of sexual violence it will still be inappropriate and still be considered sexual harassment in adult society. You have to remember that this is a conversation between student leaders about a colleague, the same student leaders that should be helping to protect people from becoming victims of rape and sexual harassment.

      The fact that you’re going off on a tangent about 50 Shades of Grey indicates that you have a whole lot to learn about consent. Wholly ignoring the fact that it is sexual fantasy and considered trash by most, you really can’t judge people’s beliefs from the book they’re reading. In fact, you’re contributing to rape culture by espousing the belief that the book a person reads indicates their sexual attitudes to the point where having them say something different makes them “hypocrites” who shouldn’t say anything when another woman is threatened with a man’s “shaft” for being in a position of power.

      People are outraged because these guys should simply no longer be in their leadership positions. There shouldn’t be a fight to have them punished.

      You know what promotes rape culture more than 50 Shades of Grey? It’s men like you who barge into these conversations trying to tell women that problem is some aspect of their behaviour.

    • Anonymous March 3, 2014 at 2:44 pm #

      This is a joke right? I mean you do realize that because someone would fantasize about rape or being dominated, it does not mean she expects it, or wants it in real life? How many of us, women AND men have thought of being dominated? Now, how many of us actually want this? You’ll find what’s in your fantasies is no where near how you expect to be treated by people around you.

      This article is absolutely frustrating and your reaction to it is even more saddening. It is not an “overblow”. This is a real human being, I repeat: human being. You would not expect a man to be treated this way were he to be in a higher position. It’s not because a book sells to thousands of people that cases like this become acceptable. Not any more that it is okay to rape women because a movie is made about it. If just one case like this becomes acceptable in comparison to a book, how many more are we going to accept? Women already have to fight enough for their rights and also their place and you would want us to shy away from saying “I will not be treated this way” because you believe it is over reacting? I am really sorry for you and for the ladies in your life.

      Your arguments are ridiculous and very immature and I encourage you to revise your vision and realize you are encouraging the young men’s behaviors with your misogynistic comments.

  14. Robb Davis March 3, 2014 at 12:59 am #

    I would like to say ” I am coming to get those guys ” , but that would be a threat. As a man I am intolerant of boys who harm or threaten others. Too bad so many good boys died fighting our enemies overseas. Those boys did not deserve to die. They died as men. Too bad there are so many enemies in our country. So many enemies died as boys. I fear no one boys.

  15. beedleybee March 3, 2014 at 2:28 pm #

    What is unbelievable is that one of these men is a member of the Criminology Student Association. They would be smart to remove him. Or at least use him as a case study (he’s the one who made the rape remark).


  1. So What IS Rape Culture, If Not This? - The Good Men Project - March 3, 2014

    […] Friday, Anne Thériault released photographs she received of a Facebook conversation between five members of the board of the Student Federation […]

  2. Rape culture: It starts in private | The Scrawn - March 3, 2014

    […] problem with what you said about Anne-Marie Roy is very similar: you shouldn’t have felt it was okay to say any of those […]

  3. Rape Culture at UofO: Come at Me, Bros | Make Me a Sammich - March 3, 2014

    […] friend Anne Thériault of The Belle Jar wrote a post a few days ago about an incident at University of Ottawa wherein several male members of student […]

  4. The Round-Up: Mar. 4, 2014 | Gender Focus - March 4, 2014

    […] Roy, president of the Students Federation at the University of Ottawa, experienced some seriously disturbing commentary on Facebook and is now speaking out about how it relates to rape culture on campus (links via […]

  5. police chiefs, board adminstrators, rape fantasties and fucking feminism… how the University of Ottawa just dug their grave… | marois & moi - March 4, 2014

    […] The conversation: (To see original screen shots click here.) […]

  6. rape culture and the casual absence of consent | curious winnipeg - March 4, 2014

    […] Thériault (@Anne_theriault) recently wrote a blog post disclosing a long text message conversation between several students full… about Anne Marie Roy, president of the Student Federation of the University of Ottawa.  That […]

  7. In Defense of Belle Jar: Sitting In The World’s Largest Pub (Internet Privacy and how there is NONE) | Cupcakes And Hoodies - March 5, 2014

    […] see, Belle broke a story about rape culture at the University of Ottawa.  Go and read her blog post about it – it’s ok, I’ll […]

  8. It starts here, it ends here: A call to action against rape culture on campus | Elle Beaver - March 5, 2014

    […] via anonymous email close to a month ago and it was Roy that made it public. Last Friday, the blog, The Belle Jar, leaked a screenshot-by-screenshot translation of the conversation, which included such lowlights […]

  9. What’s Going On At uOttawa? | Take Back the Night Hamilton - March 5, 2014

    […] Anne Thériault wrote about it on her blog The Belle Jar: […]

  10. stuffofsignificance - March 5, 2014

    […] http://bellejar.ca/2014/02/28/rape-culture-at-the-university-of-ottawa/ […]

  11. Sexist pigs sue U of O student leader for revealing they’re sexist pigs | the Albatross - March 8, 2014

    […] of course someone with a conscience screenshotted the graphic conversation (huge trigger warning on that link, doggs), which also includes the charming and also clearly very […]

  12. revolutionary millennials - March 9, 2014

    […] between five of her male colleagues that included aggressive an sexual comments directed at her.  http://bellejar.ca/2014/02/28/rape-culture-at-the-university-of-ottawa/ […]

  13. Sex with Mme. President? Does she know about this? | SorryWatch - March 10, 2014

    […] government, were conversing on Facebook, in the hallowed seclusion of privacy settings. Student elections were going on, so there were issues to talk […]

  14. Sunday feminist roundup (2nd March 2014) - March 23, 2014

    […] Rape Culture at the University of Ottawa (The Belle […]

  15. On rape culture and what Heather MacDonald doesn’t understand about sexual violence | Feminist Current - March 26, 2014

    […] no denying that, when we see male students “joking” about raping female students, as we did recently at the University of Ottawa, when fraternities are untouchable on campus despite the fact that the “Greek scene” is […]

  16. Why does the internet hate Anne-Marie Roy? | nosuchnothing - April 11, 2014

    […] http://bellejar.ca/2014/02/28/rape-culture-at-the-university-of-ottawa/ […]

  17. University Rape Culture | Jennifer HLUSKO - April 20, 2014

    […] assaulting a student politician, as happened at the University of Ottawa earlier this month (Rape Culture at the University of Ottawa). We need to address rape and sexual assault head on, without shying away from the term “rape […]

  18. University Rape Culture | Jennifer HLUSKO - April 20, 2014

    […] Rape Culture at the University of Ottawa […]

  19. To End Rape Culture, Men Must Be Men | Angelina Chapin - April 21, 2014

    […] that culture has been thrust into the spotlight due to some unfortunate Facebook messages exchanged among University of Ottawa students. The five guys, four of whom were involved in student […]

  20. [Warning: Graphic Content] Leaked Facebook conversation sparks controversy at uOttawa | StudentUnion.ca - September 3, 2014

    […] University of Ottawa has been rocked by a scandal of a particularly sensitive nature. It involves a private Facebook message between five University of Ottawa male students who either currently hold or have held positions of […]

  21. On rape culture and what Heather MacDonald doesn't understand about sexual violence - Feminist Current - October 8, 2015

    […] no denying that, when we see male students “joking” about raping female students, as we did recently at the University of Ottawa, when fraternities are untouchable on campus despite the fact that the “Greek scene” is […]

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