TW for violence against women, misogynistic language, violent language, talk of rape
Last night, a 22 year old man named Elliot Rodger killed six people and injured seven more in what most news outlets are describing as a “shooting rampage.” Rodger died later that night from a gunshot wound to his head, though it’s still unclear as to whether or not it was self-inflicted or from responding deputies shooting back after he opened fire on them.
Almost everything I’ve read about him has referred to him as a “madman” or “mentally ill.”
No. We have no evidence yet that he suffered from any kind of mental illness or was seeking any sort of treatment. Immediately claiming that with no proof to back that fact up leads to the further stigmatization of the mentally ill, and contributes to the (incorrect) assumption that mental illness equals violence, and vice versa.
We don’t know whether Elliot Rodger was mentally ill. What we do know is that he was a Men’s Rights Activist, or MRA.
He was an active member of the “PUAhate,” an online forum (which has been down since the shootings) dedicated to “revealing the scams, deception and misleading marketing techniques used by dating gurus and the seduction community to mislead men and profit from them.” And just to clarify, they’re not revealing these scams because of how vile and misogynistic they are, but rather because these men have tried these techniques and still failed to trick women into sleeping with them. These are men who both feel entitled to have sex with women and also blame all women everywhere for not fucking them. See, they want to have sex with a woman because that’s what they deserve just for being dudes, but they also hate women for withholding what they view as rightfully theirs. And I mean, boy do they ever hate women. The PUAhate forum has, according to an article on The Hairpin, threads with titles like “Are ugly women completely useless to society?” and “Have any hot women ever committed suicide?”
Rodger also subscribed to several YouTube channels on how to be a ‘pick up artist,’ including The Player Supreme Show and RSDfreetour as well as multiple MRA channels.
Last night, shortly before going on his killing spree, Rodger posted a video on YouTube to serve as his manifesto. In it, he declares that he’s a 22 year old virgin, and then goes on to say:
‘College is the time when everyone experiences those things such as sex and fun and pleasure. But in those years I’ve had to rot in loneliness. It’s not fair. You girls have never been attracted to me. I don’t know why you girls aren’t attracted to me. But I will punish you all for it,’ he says in the video, which runs to almost seven minutes.
>‘I’m going to enter the hottest sorority house of UCSB and I will slaughter every single spoilt, stuck-up, blonde slut that I see inside there. All those girls that I’ve desired so much, they would’ve all rejected me and looked down on me as an inferior man if I ever made a sexual advance towards them,’
‘I’ll take great pleasure in slaughtering all of you. You will finally see that I am, in truth, the superior one. The true alpha male …’
This is what the Men’s Rights Movement teaches its members. Especially vulnerable, lonely young men who have a hard time relating to women. It teaches them that women, and especially feminist women, are to blame for their unhappiness. It teaches them that women lie, and that women are naturally predisposed to cheat, trick and manipulate. It teaches them that men as a social class are dominant over women and that they are entitled to women’s bodies. It teaches them that women who won’t give them what they want deserve some kind of punishment.
We need to talk about this. The media, especially, needs to address this. We live in a culture that constantly devalues women in a million little different ways, and that culture has evolved to include a vast online community of men who take that devaluation to its natural conclusion: brutal, violent hatred of women. And I don’t mean that all these men have been physically violent towards women, but rather that they use violent, degrading, dehumanizing language when discussing women. Whose bodies, just as a reminder, they feel completely entitled to.
Another reminder: this isn’t an isolated incident. Not by a long shot. No, most men don’t go out in a blaze of glory after shooting up in a sorority house, but there are so many examples of men becoming violent towards women after being rejected. Like the kid last month who stabbed a girl to death because she wouldn’t go to the prom with him. The threat of violence is the main reason why many women feel unable to leave an abusive relationship – because after leaving is when they are at their most vulnerable. When you look the statistics on violence against women, Elliot Rodger’s act doesn’t seem so much like a one-off incident. He was participating, albeit in a grandiose public way, in the time-honoured tradition of controlling women with violence and punishing them when they don’t behave as desired.
We don’t know if Elliot Rodger was mentally ill. We don’t know if he was a “madman.” We do know that he was desperately lonely and unhappy, and that the Men’s Rights Movement convinced him that his loneliness and unhappiness was intentionally caused by women. Because this is what the Men’s Rights Movement does: it spreads misogyny, it spreads violence, and most of all it spreads a sense of entitlement towards women’s bodies. Pretending that this is the a rare act perpetrated by a “crazy” person is disingenuous and also does nothing to address the threat of violence that women face every day. We can’t just write this one off – we need to talk about all of the fucked up parts of our culture, especially the movements that teach men that they have the right to dominate and intimidate and violate women, and we need to change things. Because if we don’t, I guarantee that this will happen again. And again. And again.
‘”Why do men feel threatened by women?” I asked a male friend of mine. So this male friend of mine, who does by the way exist, conveniently entered into the following dialogue. “I mean,” I said, “men are bigger, most of the time, they can run faster, strangle better, and they have on the average a lot more money and power.” “They’re afraid women will laugh at them,” he said. “Undercut their world view.” Then I asked some women students in a quickie poetry seminar I was giving, “Why do women feel threatened by men?” “They’re afraid of being killed,” they said.’
Margaret Atwood, Writing the Male Character (1982)
ETA: A few people have been commenting to tell me that I’m wrong about Elliot not having a mental illness, as his family members have reported to the media that he had Asperger syndrome. Asperger syndrome is not a mental illness – it is a neurological condition, and it does not predispose people to violence. Correlating Asperger’s with violence is wrong and uninformed and you are doing more harm than good by saying that.
The Belle Jar 
I have a mental illness and I’m alone. Having a mental illness doesn’t makes me a murderer and being alone doesn’t makes me lonely.
This young man was disturbed, and blaming mental illness or loneliness, is like using a broken umbrella on a rainy day. As society we need to stop accepting that having a mental illness makes you violent. That is a lie!
^Truth! It’s not the illness, but the individual. One of the coolest people I’ve ever met has schizophrenia AND bipolar disorder 🙂 (And no, he never hurt anyone. He’s a really funny and relaxed guy.)
Too many factors to count, or to ever measure by any empirical metric, turned this potentially wonderful young man into a murderer. I feel terrible about the whole thing, and I pray that both he and everyone else affected finds peace and love, either in this life, or the next.
I likely have mental illness, and will probably spend the rest of my life mostly alone. I can accept that. Unfortunately, I don’t think the young man could. But I was lucky enough to at least experience love and mutual affection, while he was not. We all need to count our blessings.
THANK YOU! You took the words right out of my mouth!
Reblogged this on Choose Your Own Adventure and commented:
Please do not confuse mental illness with a person who is the product of a culture that fosters male entitlement, who believed that women owe him their bodies, that he was within his rights to punish people who rejected his advances by killing them.
Mental illness indeed has nothing to do with entitlement; that was not the point. The point was that mental illness has to do with the fact he was under psychiatric care, and has to do with the fact he went on a killing spree.
I agree with the writer, my dad has Aspergers, it does not make you a pre-meditated killer. Yes it’s frustrating sometimes because you have a difficulty communicating with people. But I’ve never seen my dad get upset because of that, he just accept himself and others, and is a loving caring person. We need to stop blaming jealousy, meanness on mental illness, I think you can have those feelings without being diagnosed with a mental illness.
Having the syndrome doesn’t make you a killer, but killers can have the syndrome. This isn’t about you or your dad. People died and your offense taken is so pale in comparison – it’s not worth considering. Does that make sense?
Having a problem doesn’t necessarily make everyone a murderer but it can cause some people to become murderers. Not everyone who is mentally ill is totally warped but some mentally ill people are totally warped. I think people need to rid themselves of this absolutist mentality. Just because people mention that someone was mentally ill or had Aspergers doesn’t mean that they think EVERYONE with these problems are murderers. Just like with the gun argument. Just because people think that some people shouldn’t own guns doesn’t mean they think EVERYONE should not own them. We really need to stop looking at black and white and focus on the gray. And there is a lot more of that.
Thank you for your remarks about Aspergers. This is very sad.
What happened was tragic. I am astounded as how you turned this I to a generalized post about MRA.
The coverage of this story is depressing. Leaving aside what he did for a second, I feel sorry for this kid. He talked himself up in that video, but he was clearly incredibly alienated and isolated, he desperately craved validation and intimacy and couldn’t find it. He had asbergers, which probably isn’t relevant to his choice of violence, but would have made his particular problem harder to deal with. He’d been repeatedly removed from his circle of friends and had an absentee father who seems to have effectively abandoned him. He was surrounded by shiny happy beautiful people and felt rejected.
Everyone feels like that occasionally, but it sounds like he’d been in that state of mind for years, he couldn’t escape it and it doesn’t sound like his parents were particularly available or equipped to help him. It’s something that some of us can relate to, and it’s maddening to see people projecting their own agendas onto the story. This is definitely not about “entitlement” or “privilege”. I don’t think he had either of those things going for him, at least not in the context of where he was living. At a personal level he’s been publicly written off as a deluded loser, which is a problem because I think there are a lot of young men who feel the same way about the world and their inability to relate to it, and this isn’t going to help.
Ok, sure, there are magical super-people who can rise above things like what he was struggling with based on pure reason and olympic talent, but not everyone can.
Misogyny is an aspect of his motivation that we can put a name to, but this kid appears to have been angry at the whole world. He was upset about his inability to connect with women (expressed staggeringly badly in that video) but he hated happy men as well, because they could. The PUA (and MRA) ideologies are depressing (almost as depressing as the thought that they might actually work – please, somebody reassure me that they don’t), but I don’t think they’re convincing people to see the world a different way – they’re attracting young men who’re already alienated and who’re looking for ways to solve their problem. Again, I think the guys on those sites talk themselves up, but if they were as cool and romantically successful as they made out they wouldn’t be bothering to brag about it on the internet – they’d be off having real lives.
To me, the real story here is a soul-crushingly alienated young man, and I can (sadly) relate to how he felt (which doesn’t mean that I _like_ him, I stress). It’s terrible that he turned to violence but I think the underlying cause is still worth keeping in mind, because he’s not alone. This shouldn’t have ever become a “mental health issue”. This kid just needed solid guidance and decent male role models and none of the rest need have happened.
I’ve been reading more about the posts he made to various websites. Wow. It’s also clear from the things that the family said that he had some serious emotional issues, and he was resisting attempts by his parents to help – I think I was harsh about them. I still believe I can relate to the loneliness that made him angry (I’m not angry at women, just despondent), but he was carrying some really horrible ideas in his head, and I assume that they were mixed up in the echo-chamber of the people he was talking to.
The blame-wars that have broken out are depressing. The early claims about misogyny struck me as simplistic, and I think it’s even more clear now that there was a lot more to it, but the pushback from the MRA/PUA/whatever people is astonishing. I’m baffled that people honestly think some of the things I’ve read in the last couple of hours. I don’t know if their core motivation is an honest hatred of women or if they’re just angry and latching on to that worldview, but wow there are some scary people out there.
“the pushback from the MRA/PUA/whatever people is astonishing. I’m baffled that people honestly think some of the things I’ve read in the last couple of hours. I don’t know if their core motivation is an honest hatred of women or if they’re just angry and latching on to that worldview, but wow there are some scary people out there.”
The thing is — women have always known that.
We’ve had to. It’s — quite obviously (at least we hope now) — a matter of survival for us.
You make much sense and expressed your thoughts and sentiments so beautifully.
Thanks.
What exactly makes this guy an MRA? That he belonged to a pick up artist hating website.
What a bunch of garbage. What is so threatening about men’s rights activists that you would spread such hatred?
Why, when speaking about misogyny, are you making it necessarily about sex? It’s possible for a man to be unhappy and lonely and for him to blame and hate women for it, and for it NOT to be primarily about sex. Men are capable of desiring women on as many levels as women are capable of desiring men. By reducing it to the level of sex, you are making a comment about men in general, are you not?
You’re onto something there. I know that in this case it’s an uphill slog to talk about men being more than 2-dimensional, given the particular man we’re talking about, but the “men only want one thing” trope is pernicious. It might apply to SOME men, but I think most men want way more than that. If men only cared about “one thing”, a lot more of us would visit prostitutes. A survey where I live, about a decade ago, (where the sex industry is legal and safe and regulated in most places) suggested that only about 4% of men use their services – I was actually surprised it was that many. Women and men probably have different priorities at different stages of their lives, but it’s a male stereotype that probably causes harm – it unfairly gives young men one more thing to feel ashamed about, and tells them that they have to lie about what they want.
After watching some of the videos on his youtube channel, I have to say that this guy was vastly creepifying – he claimed to be “magnificent” and “fabulous”, yet complained not only about being a virgin, but also about being completely friendless. He was completely perplexed as to why someone as “awesome” as he was, wasn’t getting attention. I imagine he thought he should have gotten attention, love and sex merely for the fact of his existence an not do any legwork. He kept complaining how it’s “not fair”, that other “less worthy” men have relationships and hookups and whatnot and he doesn’t, but he didn’t seem to comment on any of his own attempts. I mean, despite the creep factor, he still had an A+ face, and I imagine, with the proper attitude, he could be lavished with attention. I mean, “ugly” people have friends, even lots of friends, and we live in a society that’s completely absorbed with visual image as a primary value.
Side question: does anybody know of any cases like this, or the prom-rejection stabbings, etc. outside of the USA? I don’t, but it could be the case that it only makes local/regional news, and isn’t globally broadcast like the American cases.
Anyone?
As somebody who has no idea how dating is supposed to work, I can honestly say that I don’t know what you mean by “leg work”. Truly. Apart from that, the thing that jumped out at me most about your post is that yes, people are actually entitled to love and attention and validation and constructive criticism and guidance just for existing – but it’s supposed to come from parents. Parents don’t always get it right, and it can take a looooong time to make up for the shortfall later. Despite the bragging on that video, I don’t think he believed any of it. If he really did truly believe that he was awesome then he probably would have actually talked to girls, and if he really was as good-looking and well-to-do as he seemed, then odds are that at least some of them would have welcomed him enough that he’d have got the validation that he craved, and some useful feedback, and he’d have never gone down the destructive path that he took (I mean identifying with the PUA crowd). I think all the big-noting was to paper over his own sense of failure and alienation. All the talk about this guy’s sense of superiority and entitlement is dead wrong (IMHO). His actions (and a bit of common sense) say otherwise.
Completely agree with you, Matthew…actually, if I’m not mistaken, it is very common for the mind to create defense mechanisms like grandiose self image when confronted with a harsh reality, such as persistent rejection…especially when nothing one does manages to resolve the issue.
The truth is, there’s a lot of people like Elliot out there…it’s just that most of them are nonviolent and peaceful. Still, I empathize with him in a number of ways – seeing the kind of lowlife people I have find so much success in this world has been at times infuriating and downright depressing…but we have to accept the world as it is, because there’s not a damn thing we can do to change it.
For anyone who’s read the manifesto and is at all familiar with narcissistic PD, the conflict between his inflated sense of self (he describes himself as anything from fabulous to God-like) and reality isn’t strange – it’s what generally happens to narcissists, and yes, they do actually believe they’re the best thing since sliced bread. Their defence against reality not matching up to that is to externalize it – there’s nothing wrong with *them*, they’re gods among humanity; there’s something wrong *with the entire rest of humanity*!
That’s what the killer did. He concluded that all women, the entire gender, were mentally ill. He included his mother in that too. Just…they can’t see how awesome he is, and he’s so awesome as to be almost a next stage of evolution, so clearly they’re all insane. Oh, and also animals, incapable of rational thought. “Men of intelligence”, such as himself, should get to control who women “mate and breed with” so as to prevent women’s base urges from further devolving humanity as a whole.
That kind of narcissistic rationalization is downright commonplace and familiar to anyone who’s dealt with narcissists. Nothing odd about it.
The only odd thing is that he didn’t approach any women, while a pure narcissist (ie someone who only had a narcissistic PD) of course would’ve. So there was another reason for that behavior, whether severe social anxiety, autism spectrum, whatever.
Acid attacks against women in various countries, all over the world, men throw acid on women when they refuse marriage proposals or even a simple date, permanently disfiguring the women and these women are shunned in public, cant find or physically able to work, cant afford medical treatment and the men that do these acts of violence against women are rarely punished for their crime.
Can you source any of this, please?
So does that mean we are letting the women who were ultimately the ones who drove him to madness of the hook?
…… women didn’t drive him to this and you’re seriously messed up if you think that. Everyone – man or woman – has the right to say no to sexual advances. Women didn’t owe him anything.
@Green Well said!
@Toosie I’m seriously confused at what “women” you’re referring to. The instances of bullying he’s experienced seemed to have been perpetrated by other boys, and if there were girls there they did nothing to stop it or actively laughed. Those people, regardless of gender, are horrible people and their actions are inexcusable.
However, if you’re talking about the women who drove him to madness by not spreading their legs because he merely existed in the same space as them…whoooooo so many issues here. First, apparently he didn’t even speak to them, just tried to smile or talk to random strangers and they didn’t acknowledge him because they probably had lives to live? That’s not an uncommon experience: people have lives. They are busy. The whole world, and all the women in it, aren’t going to stop when one dude decides it’s high time to talk to one of them and get some sex.
No one owes anyone sex. Doesn’t matter if they’re men or women, it’s called body autonomy, and it’s a basic human right. If a woman doesn’t have time to give to a man, it’s not a right he deserves, and he’s not allowed to be angry about it and blame them. Same with the reverse.
I can sympathize with feeling isolated and having full out anxiety about approaching people, but to blame them then for your own issues or problems? And then reacting violently and killing people?
He drove himself to madness, he made the decision to kill people, and the unfortunate men and women who were around him at the time are the only victims.
Why does this article have a trigger warning for violence against women, but not one for violence against men?
Reblogged this on The Starbucks Addict and commented:
It is a never ending battle for women to gain their right to exist in happiness.
This is sad. Everybody has their own Agenda and they’re so ripe with joy to politicize a tragedy. You aren’t even trying to understand it – you simply have your mind made up and you’re tossing your gross generalizations out into the universe. I came across your asinine article on Huffington Post and besides swearing off that site (because yours isn’t the only garbage they provide a platform for) – I was shocked that somebody could be that dense and arrogant while writing about multiple murders. Your disgusting cocksure attitude about something you’ve cherry picked to use in your soapbox speeches – is something you need to get sorted. People lost their lives, this individual was not well while he was alive or he wouldn’t have done this. Furthermore, you used the term madman – that is a subjective term and not a medical diagnosis. I believe he was a mad man as I read through his manifesto, and watched his video and I’m not sure how you don’t come to that conclusion as well. I’m actually frightened to know what your criteria for a madman is – if a young man gunning people down in cold blood doesn’t fit the bill. You wrote a piece about things offending people – I think you need to take a deep look inward and consider how defensive you’re being of a rather self – manufactured issue you have raised and how your own behavior may be construed. You have your opinion – and I have mine. People may very well agree with you, and may I say … for this bleeding heart liberal socialist feminist – That scares me. I also sense some deep seated insecurities regarding mental health. His issues DO NOT define you. How about you bunch who commented in regards to mental illness – stop making this about you. Because what Eliot Rodger did does not define you – mental illness or not. I suggest you get that figured out – or you seem like a disconnected, egocentric lot. You aren’t the type who wants to improve the real situation – your the type to piece into your own twisted narrative. Good luck with that, and if you lose Huff Post – I’m sure Fox News may publish some of your stuff, since it has that fraudulent flair to it. Please, actually read about these cases in their entirety – as people have died and your words should reflect that you consider that.
Not to be a bore, but some cases of asberger’s and other levels of autism can result in violent and even phsychotic behavior. The latter in particular is extremely rare, but having experienced it first hand within my family I can pretty much tell ya it can happen.
But usually, this violence (often minor) is reserved for parental figures and primary carers.
BUT just because behaviour might be (in this case very tenuously) EXPLAINABLE does not make it EXCUSABLE. Everything you’ve said is still valid. The fact is that this is a culture which is growing at an alarming rate, and peopl need to know how serious it is.
This is a most excellent blog post. Thank you for writing it.
Once again women had to play the victim card. Here, we have a guy (Elliot), who is so powerless and frustrated that resulted in violence and hatred. BUT of course men had all the power right? After all, women are sooooo powerless that they had to resort to violence/rape/prostitution to get what they want right? We all know women had the vagina; they hold the power, and they control men like puppets.
Just….what? How are “women” (strange way to call them, as if they’re all a hive mind–like this guy did) playing the victim card here?
There are plenty of people, men and women, who go through life feeling powerless, bullied, isolated, and all that who do NOT turn to violence and hatred and MASS MURDER MEN AND WOMEN LIKE THIS GUY.
If this guy was a “victim” of anything, it was a mixture of the effects of his own mental illness (which does not speak for much, since I personally know people with what he reportedly has and they are kind and sane and wouldn’t hurt a fly), and the effects of patriarchy, which hurts men as well as women (by leading men to believe they are failures if they don’t have sex, and it doesn’t allow them to show or have flaws/emotions/weaknesses/vulnerability of any kind, etc. If men are told they aren’t allowed to have a flaw, how can they recognize it in themselves/acknowledge it/then improve on it if it hurts them and their chances at something?)
However, the patriarchy also teaches men a toxic entitlement along with that–that not only are they not “real/alpha men” if they don’t get sex, but it’s women who are holding it from them if they aren’t successful because women just happen to be born in the bodies they desire (because again, it couldn’t POSSIBLY be a flaw/weakness of theirs–“real men” don’t have those!). It’s women who are to blame, it’s women and not the fact that they themselves might be the problem (which this guy should have realized if he was self-aware and not so entitled. The fact that he despised other men and blamed them as he did women show to his entitlement. He clearly thought the other men were undeserving of the women, as if they weren’t just nice, normal guys but had a cheat code to sex that he himself unfairly did not).
However, in case you haven’t noticed, the patriarchy is entirely man-made and is thousands of years old…and women suffer from it too, as men do.
It is entirely false to say that women hold power in a society that was created by men for men, in a society where women are in danger of constantly being brutalized/raped etc as you yourself acknowledge.
Just because women aren’t domestic/sex slaves as they have been essentially treated for centuries and centuries (and still treated in large parts of the world today) here in America, does NOT mean that power has somehow shifted and women everywhere have all the power when they are STILL more likely to be killed by a man than anything else….It just means that men can’t force themselves on women as they like anymore, that single power men used to have has been taken away from them because women have been recognized by society at large as human beings with a right to body autonomy. That’s it. (Oh boo hoo, if a man does that NOW, it’s a crime! So sad, this guy was born in the wrong decade, I suppose? More like wrong century.)
I’m sorry if you’ve suffered from anyone who has a cruel or bullying streak, however, that is not something that you can apply to and blame on an entire gender of BILLIONS of other people. My god, I just…again, women aren’t a hive mind, just like men aren’t. They’re all people with flaws and humanity, and patriarchy takes that away from both genders, by expecting men to be perfect, flawless, man-alphas who get sex and women to be objects for men to desire/get sex from whenever they need/want.
And I can’t even fathom what you’re talking about with men resorting to violence/rape/prostitution…are you seriously saying men are the powerless ones because they resort to such extreme and morally-depraved acts of violence and rape for sex (and that this shows powerlessness, rather than entitlement to sex and women’s bodies)? Are you seriously suggesting that is excusable in any kind of way? That all women are at fault because of a single man’s broken moral compass? That women everywhere are to blame for a man’s crimes against them? Victim-blaming much? What?
Seriously, what.
I could just as easily say this for any crime–oh that robber was so powerless and frustrated because he wanted money but couldn’t get any for whatever reason, so he was driven to robbing and killing that richer man…because that richer man was doing nothing but trying to live his own life and support his family but that man had something that robber wanted…money! And how DARE he not give it to the robber?! He gave it to ALL those charities! The robber deserved that money more! He was poor too, and he wanted it! He was frustrated for god’s sake! He was driven to rob/kill that man! He was the victim of all men with more money/better jobs everywhere! Not like he couldn’t just get a job and not commit crimes! No! Because he didn’t have THEIR money, that he wanted and deserved! So he’s gonna take it! Oh poor robber. That random man you just killed had all the power and he dangled it in front of you by just existing…
Do you see where I’m going with this?
As if any court anywhere would think that’s a sensible argument. “the richer man had more power/money, so the robber was clearly justified because he was frustrated”.
Just because someone has something you want, is never a justification for taking it.
You can’t take someone’s money. You can’t take their body. You can’t take their right to exist because YOU are frustrated or whatever reason. People who think so should take a long look in the mirror and figure out what’s going on and how to fix their own life–that’s what everyone else does. It’s no one’s JOB to fix it for you–except for those psychologists (and your parents to help guide you, I guess).
But don’t blame random women or men.
Why is this so hard for anyone to understand??
Brilliant post, thank you. And the article that we’re all responding to was brilliant in its own right–very well done.
I have a unique perspective on this situation, as I’m the cousin of a murder victim; another woman destroyed in a haze of bullets because she rejected a man. I’m sorry, but I really don’t care if there were mental issues, societal factors, or anything else that affected my cousin’s murderer; all I know is that a very special sweet, bright, beautiful mother of two was ripped from our family, and from her own full life. I do believe that sexism and patriarchal entitlement played a role in her murder.
As far as this kid’s apparent experiences with bullying and rejection by the opposite sex; I notice that in his videos, he’s constantly referring to beautiful blondes–as though they’re the only women on the planet. Then I guess when he couldn’t score a date with a Kate Upton or Christie Brinkley lookalike, he decided that all women were shallow and unreasonable–qualities he himself was showing. Add to this the fact that he was actually pretty good looking himself–it was probably his hatred of women that drove them away, not what they saw on the outside.
This may comes as a shock to “Nice Guys”TM and “Incels” but there are men who are sick of your bitter, self-pitying bullshit and doing so does not make us “manginas”.
Thank you for writing this. And thank you for calling people out on their misinformed understanding of Asperger. I wish I had more words to say thank you.
Neither Elliot Rodgers nor PUAhate have any connection to the Men’s Rights Movement, any more than black urban gangbangers are part of the Civil Rights Movement or Islamic women suicide bombers are part of the Women’s Rights Movement.
To make this allegation is far more irresponsible than to focus on Rodger’s Aspergers.
Thank you for this. I haven’t been following the TV coverage, but when journalists and TV channels refuse to see what’s right in front of their eyes (misogyny literally kills), I’m glad I have the blogging community. I just wish they’d listen to us.
PUA organizations are not MRA’s. Neither are anti-PUA organizations. They have as much to do with MRA’s as a cooking blog. They are pickup/dating advice groups that have nothing to do with the men’s rights movement. Both groups actively disassociate with each other.
How come no one is commenting on the misogyny in muslim countries, women have no rights inbthe muslim world.
Because this particular crime didn’t happen in the “muslim world”?
While the atrocities committed against women and outright misogyny accepted in widespread society in many of those countries is horrible, those don’t negate the fact that there is still subtle (or I guess not-so-subtle) misogyny in American/Western culture as well.
That’s like saying “why do we care about people with cancer in America, there are people with cancer in ____[insert place here] who don’t even have any ways to fight it!”
Like, I understand where you’re coming from but that doesn’t mean we forget about or stop fighting cancer in America.
Or did you mean something else? (Maybe I read that wrong)
Asperger’s Syndrome is correctly described as a neurological condition and not a mental illness, but his Asperger’s is almost certainly a major reason why women found him off-putting, and also why he was unable to comprehend why. Among the salient characteristics of Asperger’s are the inability to comprehend social norms, the inability to recognize facial expressions and other forms of nonverbal communication. Those with Asperger’s can have trouble with social boundaries, with differentiating acceptable and unacceptable subjects for conversation, the inability to tell when someone dislikes them or finds them annoying. These can and often do lead to social alienation. This doesn’t usually result in violence, though. But I can understand his confusion, and his immersion in a single point of view, which seemed rational to him, explaining the behavior towards him of women, and his inability to see the extremity, danger, and ‘insanity’ of this view because of the absence of social boundaries and norms in his understanding of the world. He may not be mentally ill per se, but his Asperger’s could go a long way toward explaining his mental state.
He was living in a life-skills coaching residence.
All that Asperger does is make people a bit like Mr. Data. They have to make a cosncious, learned effort to understand social codes, body language, etc. Their brain has a different shape from ours. Some are university professors, etc. and many are highly intelligent people. And 99,99% are not violent.
They guy thought having a BMW and Armani glasses would bring droves of babes to his bed. He was a regular hate website user. He has a highly unrealistic vision of relations with women. ONE rejection, and that was it! Obviously he had issues, but Asperger was not one.
Amen!!!
From what I read and thought, it appears Rodgers was disconnected and bathed in his narcissism. A couple of earlier commentators noted his past childhood experiences of being bullied and the laughter young men and women offered. Anyone who checks out the interaction of high schoolers should not be surprised by the equality of cruelty that goes unchecked. Rodgers’ actions were the inseparable combination of his choice and social factors must be considered.
Moreover, Rodgers took advantage of social media to express his banality ( Hannah Arendt’s ” banality of evil” ). He sought justification by like minded males for his hatred of all people and his failed sexual frustrations. In short, he forgot about love for his fellow humans. As I write this response, one father of the young men killed by Rodgers spoke with simple eloquence. As a dad of two daughters, I pray for their personal being, wellness and sadly for their safety in our unsafe world where we should all step up and embrace each person’s humanity.
IMO, the intent and premeditation are clear indicators that he was not criminally insane. I doubt even his father’s money would have saved him with an insanity defense if he had lived through his homicidal rampage.
What I want to know is what all you misogyny enablers, blowing the “mental illness” horn, think of all his supporters who are calling him a hero, saying that the young women who he murdered “deserved” it and who are warning women to “beware” of the next guy whose attentions are rebuffed? What the frack do you think of those folks? Are they “mentally ill” too? And what the hell do you propose we do about all these “insane” misogynists who threaten women and who applaud gunning down innocent young people? Should we have them all committed? Or are they entitled to their murderous hate? You do realize that this “insanity” we call patriarchy and its toxic masculinity/misogyny didn’t begin with this murderous creep and it doesn’t end with him. Yes?
The problem with this blog post is that it simplifies men’s groups by acting as if there is one group comprised of men who think the same way. There are different groups (or factions) of men’s organizations that don’t completely share the same views and purposes.
The primary group, which Elliot Rodger had nothing to do with, is the Men’s Human Rights Movement (or Men’s Rights Activists). They focus on issues related to divorce, child custody, father’s rights, false allegations of gender crimes (and yes, they do happen), education (primarily the rights of boys in educational institutions. This group consists of men and women who actually DON”T BELIEVE IN VIOLENCE and are therefore pacifists. An example of a web site that is part of the Men’s Human Rights Movement is A Voice for Men, which was founded in 2009 by Paul Elam.
A second and more extreme group are called MGTOW, which stands for Men Going Their Own Way. It can be argued that they hate women, but they advocate the idea that men should not get involved with women. They should not date, marry, or have anything to do with women, period. It is separatist in that it argues that women are toxic in various ways (such as being extremely hypergamous, gold digging, narcissistic, financially ruin men in divorce cases, or intentionally get pregnant to ruin men financially through endless child support payments). The MGTOW philosophy states that men must separate themselves from women altogether and live their own lives in order to achieve freedom and happiness.
(Note: Elliot Rodger had nothing to do with either of these two groups).
Elliot Rodger was part of the third group, which are PUA’s (or Pick Up Artists). They are unrelated or distinct from the Men’s Rights Movement. Like MGTOWs, they don’t believe men should get into relationships with women. However, unlike MGTOWs, PUAs are in search of casual sexual relations with women. They feel entitled to have sexual relations with women, but don’t want to commit to them.
These three groups could share similar views, and there are many in the Men’s Human Rights Movement such as Paul Elam who do in fact support MGTOWs and their philosophy even though he himself is not MGTOW.
But my view of Elliot Rodger is that it wasn’t his PUA views that led him to kill 7 people. It was the simple fact that he could not emotionally deal with loneliness and was seriously disturbed or psychotic.
You’re reframing events to push your agenda. It has since been established that Rodger did, in fact, have a history of mental illness. I’m not saying that he wasn’t a misogynist, and I’m not denying that some Men’s Rights Groups foster horrible attitudes toward women, but please don’t rewrite history to suit your needs. Based on his writings, Rodger clearly suffered from an inferiority complex and persecutory delusion, among other things. These are mental health issues.
Rodger didn’t focus his hatred entirely on women, either. He also hated attractive men, men who garner attention from women, the wealthy, and others. I don’t know the stats of those who were injured and survived, but 2/3rds of the people he killed were men.
Great post, both in its content and in the commentary that it has stirred up, which seem reasonable and reasoned rather than that of the reactionary and name calling variety. How refreshing. Think I will be reading more of your posts. THANKS!
Dont forget he killed a few males…
Something I’ve not seen commented on, and something to think further about. Elliot Rodger suffered an immense sense of loss at an early age, and thereafter. Leaving the country of his birth, and a structured family (grandparents, aunts/uncles and cousins he loved dearly), all he had known (and he talked about it frequently, enjoying the many trips he took to visit them) – in fact, he talked more about how important it was to make his grandparents proud of him and spoke nothing of making his own parents proud. The loss of unity when his parents divorced. The loss of stable home as his parents shifted him about for his entire childhood – home in the sense of unity and family, and home in the sense of a place to come to, structural, peaceful, safe – how many homes did his mother move into – too many! He couldn’t even keep his own room in any of the homes as his stepmother was constantly moving his room about the house to accommodate others. Loss of friends and opportunities to grow in school when he was constantly changing schools due to financial issues between the two parents and their ever changing locations. Abandonment in almost every sense in the world from his father, who was absent the majority of his childhood and teen years, yet expected to bow down to his stepmother whom he claims embarrassed him around his friends at every opportunity. A mother who was busy with her own life and instead of providing structure, gave him every material thing he ever asked for.(buying his adoration, essentially) A half brother he could barely connect to due to age difference, home environment, etc. He never talked about his sister, which gives an indication they were not close. His relationships with his friends were “appointed” by his mother depending on where she happened to live at the time, thus, nurturing those relationships had to have been difficult because he never knew how long he was going to remain at that home/school/location. The hammer on his issues seemed to be when he entered puberty (and rebellion), and could not handle it on his own, he only had a few friends to talk to and they eventually abandoned him as well (he admitted sometimes it was his own fault for his behavior). Mommy threw money at him, daddy let stepmother run the house, no one asked Elliot what was going on in his life. All this talk about his parents getting him help – according to Elliot’s manifesto, that did not occur until he was entering college. By then, he had mastered the art of deception, lies and deceit because that was what he was accustomed to. Whatever he wanted, he got and if he didn’t get it now, he threw a tantrum. No one taught him how to grow up, face life, face the realities of life. He often spoke about how his early childhood was the only happy time in his life and how he longed to go back to that life. Also, the news reports as well as the lawyer speaking on the family’s behalf can’t seem to get the story straight -asperger’s. Yes, no, no we didn’t say that, yes it was diagnosed, no, we didn’t say that, blah blah. He didn’t have it, he had a ton of other issues, most likely what we usually call now, manic depression/bipolar/dissassociative disorder, pick one. I doubt he knew how to face reality, I doubt he knew how to be sociable, because he was never taught how. He was expected to attend his parents’ lavish parties and mingle with the adults, yet no one took him aside and asked him about his life, how he was doing, much less paid attention. I’d be willing to bet neither parent could name the exact names of Elliot’s closest friends, because they weren’t paying attention. Or what his hobbies were, his favorite color, his hopes and dreams, anything as simple as that. I’m willing to bet neither took him aside and discussed the facts of life, what he wanted to do with his life. At the tender young age of 19-20, he admitted he didn’t have a clue what he wanted to do with his life, save for when in his final desperation, he wanted to get rich quick, but I doubt he understood that money would not have bought him happiness, something that he might have learned from his parents. In some aspect, I truly feel the poor kid could have ended up a productive member of society, had only his parents, peers etc paid any attention at all to what was obvious – he was screaming for help by the way he behaved. And let it be known that I do not condone the things he did before or during his killing spree, but I also don’t believe this is some unknown-out of our scientific-knowledge or reach that cannot be explained. Of course his manifesto is only his side of the story, but it certainly is telling if you read it closely. Lots of issues, but if one were to take them to task one by one, it isn’t difficult at all to see how this happened.
This is sad. Everybody has their own Agenda and they’re so ripe with joy to politicize a tragedy. You aren’t even trying to understand it – you simply have your mind made up and you’re tossing your gross generalizations out into the universe. I came across your asinine article on Huffington Post and besides swearing off that site (because yours isn’t the only garbage they provide a platform for) – I was shocked that somebody could be that dense and arrogant while writing about multiple murders. Your disgusting cocksure attitude about something you’ve cherry picked to use in your soapbox speeches – is something you need to get sorted. People lost their lives, this individual was not well while he was alive or he wouldn’t have done this. Furthermore, you used the term madman – that is a subjective term and not a medical diagnosis. I believe he was a mad man as I read through his manifesto, and watched his video and I’m not sure how you don’t come to that conclusion as well. I’m actually frightened to know what your criteria for a madman is – if a young man gunning people down in cold blood doesn’t fit the bill. You wrote a piece about things offending people – I think you need to take a deep look inward and consider how defensive you’re being of a rather self – manufactured issue you have raised and how your own behavior may be construed. You have your opinion – and I have mine. People may very well agree with you, and may I say … for this bleeding heart liberal socialist feminist – That scares me. I also sense some deep seated insecurities regarding mental health. His issues DO NOT define you. How about you bunch who commented in regards to mental illness – stop making this about you. Because what Eliot Rodger did does not define you – mental illness or not. I suggest you get that figured out – or you seem like a disconnected, egocentric lot. You aren’t the type who wants to improve the real situation – your the type to piece into your own twisted narrative. Good luck with that, and if you lose Huff Post – I’m sure Fox News may publish some of your stuff, since it has that fraudulent flair to it. Please, actually read about these cases in their entirety – as people have died and your words should reflect that you consider that.
Why would you begrudge any good that can come out of a tragedy?
Why not politicize a tragic event and harness the trauma and attention it generates to attempt positive change?
I also take issue with the author’s claim that we don’t know if the murderer was a “madman” – anyone who acts in such a manner is clearly a “madman”, but I don’t believe the rest of her assertions are wrong and don’t see any reason the two have to be mutually exclusive.
How typical to blame the women in his world.
You’re not very observant. As a child of divorce his ‘dad’ visits were almost entirely absent his father, and his rearing hamnded off to his stepparent, a HUGE mistake in divorce.
He also never, ever talks about his father ever touching him, playing with him, etc. He is moved about and given things. His father plays the remote Santa Claus character who can ‘get’ women, and even later hands Elliot off to the mentorship of some sleazy screenwriter who ‘got lots of women’. Women aren’t just objects to Elliot, but to the men in jis world too.
And, he tells of, during a ‘dad visiy’, being in an arcade at TEN YEARS old at 3 in the morning! Alone! Where was dad while his little boy’s wandering around alone like that? And Elliot says at this arcade he sees some strange man watching porn. In a place that attracts kids. Who was this guy? Did he work there? Why was Elliot able to describe this porn in so much detail? Where was he sitting when he saw it? And he cried for three days afterwards and neither ‘father’ nor stepmom,notice?!!! WTF?
This excuses nothing, but it damn sure explains alot about the ‘father’ who says he tried ‘everything’.
Sure you did buddy, sure you did…
It takes a true intellect to understand realities, I love your post because it is filled with understanding and compassion. Life is not simple black and white, its easy to paint Elliot as a mad man and be done with it, but your thoughts are more nuanced. Just like life.
There is plenty of blame for this type of tragedy, western culture, inherent racial hierarchy (in relation to dating which gave this half white kid wrong notions of who he was), poor marriage choices (of his parents). Poor parenting (while he was left with his stepmother, why wasnt his mother more involved in his life at the teen years)…..
in the end we are to blame in that we are what creates culture and in N. America, this is our culture, fast action with no thought of repercussions.
Well that’s all true to a certain degree. It’s also from his own manifesto. I grew up with a borderline personality disorder in the house. (younger sister) and I could tell from reading his manifesto that it was written specifically with what he wanted people to read in mind. Elliot was in therapy from when he was 8 years old and it was daily when he was in high school. There is no ‘cure’ or therapy that helps BPD and talk therapy actually makes it worse. It taught him how to hide what he actually thought and felt.
The parents did everything they could and more than most parents of BPD children can do due to their financial situation. They should not have had to put their lives on hold for one child, the mother was forced to move many times due to her financial situation changing and that sucks, but it’s reality. I agree that the step mum was (or so he says) quite cruel to Elliot at times, but living with someone elses BPD child cannot be easy. I also suspect his mother and sister were probably terrified of him and when the father was not around to help out the mother would have had to have given in at some points to Elliot just to get some peace. The parents approached therapists and the authorities and no doubt tried as much as they could to help him. When you live with someone like that day in and day out you realise how taxing and draining it is.
It’s easy in hindsight to judge their parenting, but it’s a very hard job made all the more harder by his illness.
It’s disgusting that you are actually defending him. I have friends who have had it WAY WORSE and it is NO excuse!!!! Shame on you for backing his actions up with petty excuses.
Aspergers kids are not mentally ill but they try to fit their problems with socialisation extreme anxiety and very structured routines into normal society without a lot of support. This may have caused him to suffer great loss of self esteem feelings of suicide that a relatively simply act of rejection could seem to him a huge thing which to others is a small thing. Aspies arent violent. Theyre very often quiet gentle people who manage their condition well with help.
Diana: For one thing this young man didn’t have autism-or any other so called autism spectrum disorder. Asperger children/adults tend to be very rigid in their behaviors and often refuse to adopt social skills but tend to shy away from overt actions such as violence. There was much more at work with this guy and the post by Kristin makes lots of sense.
HA! U tried to befriend a young woman with Asperger’s. She ended up tearing up the inside of my car, ripping off parts as she violently adjusted the air vents, ripped off the radio control knob and tore up the controls for raising and lowering the electric windows and the outside mirrors. I got her home without saying a word because I was afraid she would make me have a wreck or just hurt me. I hate to say it, but that is my last “friendship” with a person with Autism Spectrum Disorder. I will be polite and move away as quickly as possible.
She steals, lies, and is lazy, expecting everything to be handed to her and right this minute. She causes a great deal of distress in her home. But, I do not have to invite distress into my life.
If you think he has no mental problems you are daft and blind. He was most likely a narcissist, as well as a sociopath. I believe it was brought on by the overly sheltered, privileged existence he had at home, as well as his family life.(this led to bullying and self image issues as well as a broken puberty stage from a lack of proper family involvement) I have read his manifesto and so should you before speaking on the matter. I am not condoning his actions, but people must be more aware, instead of speaking from their asses.